Matrix Games Forums

I have read several times, that people here think that this is the best war game - but why? I have never played any of these games (TOAW), but I have played many other war games (ex. HOI4, GG war in the east and war in the west, Strategic command etc.)
Thanks.

With other games you think 'I wish I could do this or that', with TOAW you can. Either there is a scenario that covers it already, or you can make one yourself. I played stock scenarios with nothing but a little rule book from 2002 to 2007 and had great fun. Only Avalon Hill's Third Reich and V for Victory games were as much fun, and both of those are from the 90's. I looked at HOI and dl'd the demo. Not even really a war game, more of an asset management exercise. GG's WiE and WiW I looked at but went no further [$80 for ONE game?]. SC3 is a great replacement for Third Reich [a bit more complex, but fun].
In 2007 I discovered the TOAW Editor and started making edits and full scenarios. Certainly not something that all would be interested in, but it opens up an entire new realm of gaming.
As I said I played for 5 years and had a blast, with no help from anyone. Now we have this forum [which has tons of folks that can help with everything] plus the internet for videos [not all are so helpful]. Additionally, the main developers have been here forever and don't disappear [too often].
Is that enough ?

ORIGINAL: jnpoint

I have read several times, that people here think that this is the best war game - but why? I have never played any of these games (TOAW), but I have played many other war games (ex. HOI4, GG war in the east and war in the west, Strategic command etc.)
Thanks.

You get more for your money in the number of scenarios you get unlike other games that just give you one scenario of one particular theater like War in the West or War in the East or the many individual paks of Panzer Corp that could have been put into one game for one low low price. [:D]

Not to forget that it's always had a pretty good AI which is really the most important aspect of a game who most people play solo.

There is just great value here; more for your money as I said before and can't really say it enough.

I think what attracts me to this game is that it's complex enough, without being a hassle to actually play. The numbers of scenarios from different time-periods is definitely a factor, it's not just East Front bla bla Barbarossa etc etc.

Scenarios can be huge but also of more manageable size, and you don't have to worry about stuff like production, which I find boring in most games. Leave that to the grand strategy games like HoI and WiTE.

The UI looks pretty good for a wargame too, which is a huge plus in my book.

The missing of a production system like the one in WiTE is actually one of the biggest flaws of the game, IMO.

Most wargames dont have scenario editors, and those who do dont offer nearly as much flexibility in scope or theme as TOAW. It always hade an actice scene of high quality scenario creators.

It's the OPERATIONAL Art of war. Not the STRATEGIC art of War. Production is a grand strategic consideration. Why do you need production in a scenario that is a month long? Why do you need production in a historical game? Production in a game makes it a non historical game because you are doing something that is non historical. In war games that represent long periods of time and have production you will, without exception, find production devolving into the production of just a handful of unit types while other units that were historically produced are never seen. It will inevitably become a 'what if' scenario. SPI's War in Europe comes to mind. By the beginning of summer of 1942 the Soviets can build an impenetrable wall of units and the Germans eventually get crushed long before 1945 because the production becomes non historical.

Having said that, you could conceivably come up with a production scheme that works in TOAW if you really needed that. But again, you would end up with a non historical scenario unless you forced some things on a player.

Just my two isk worth.

ORIGINAL: Lobster

It's the OPERATIONAL Art of war. Not the STRATEGIC art of War.

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