Matrix Games Forums

Can someone clairfy this:

As Japan:

One takes a unit and loads it on exactly the right number of ships in a fast transport task force.

It arrives with supplies.

Repeat with a different number of ships.

It arrives without supplies.

As Allies:

One takes a unit and loads it on exactly the right number of ships in a fast transport task force.

It arrives without supplies.

Repeat with a different number of ships.

It arrives without supplies.

To see this in play:

Starting troops in scenario 17 as Japan

Take 3 DD & 1 CL (Rabaul) and load the 85th or 86th onto them with desinations of Buin & Gili Gili. 2 turns later, they arrive with 400+ supplies.

Change the ratio of ships in any way, they arrive with 0 supplies.

It does not matter whether one chooses Load Troops or Load Troops Only options.

From a math standpoint, the troops (818 load) + the supplies arrived with (432) exceed the capacity of the 4 ships (1200).

Is this a special feature of Japan's CL's or something going haywire?

having never played the IJN, this is only a guess... but are you seeing the supplies carried by the troops - independent of any carried by the ships?

Correct, but ONLY with specific combinations of ships which really makes one wonder whats going on here. It does NOT happen 100% of the time, which is making me wonder whats going on.

This is also part of the greater mystery as to why Load troops is greyed out with some combination of ships but not in others.

Hmmm I've seen it before as well with USN transports... Always just worked around it, never tried to figure out why. Sorry.

Understood, but the difference of sneaking what amounts to 2 extra ships worth of supplies per trip per unit factored over the course of an entire game is somewhat STAGGERING in the implications of someone who can master this trick over someone who can not...

I'd really like either an explanation of how to make it work 100% of the time, or it tucked on the to be fixed list from a bug standpoint

Just to add some details to this Fast Transport headache:

I have found that I can click load only troops, click stop loading troops, click load only troops (it loads more), click stop loading troops, click load only troops (it loads more) etc.

Seems like you can sit there and continue to load only troops till the unit is completely loaded as long as it doesn't violate the capacity numbers. Not using this *feature* will result in your ships running at quarter capacity so you would be silly not to.

The interesting point here (this particular feature, not the supply issue in the other posts) is that a player using this has an obvious advantage over a player not using it. Interface abuse should NEVER result in a player advantage.

Is it possible that you could clear up these variations with Fast Transports with a full explanation of the rules? The manual & patch notes are extremely vague, and there are no threads in existance that details how and why these things happen.

Originally posted by Mr.Frag
I have found that I can click load only troops, click stop loading troops, click load only troops (it loads more), click stop loading troops, click load only troops (it loads more) etc.

Seems like you can sit there and continue to load only troops till the unit is completely loaded as long as it doesn't violate the capacity numbers.

Yes, but can the fast transport UNLOAD all of those troops in one night like it has to? I don't think so. I would probably only unload the same amount it was loading the first time you clicked the "load troops" button and return to port with the rest of them on board. Now maybe you could then turn the ship around and order them to unload another night's worth of troops without having to go all the way back and pick them up so maybe that is somewhat of an advantage. Wouldn't it be possible to get the same advantage by loading the troops as a regular transport mision and then changing it to fast transport while at sea?


Yamamoto

They most certainly can unload in one night, not matter what they load. I have taken an entire RCT from Noumea to Efate and been back in Noumea ready to take the next RCT to Luganville the day after.

They use the "fast unload" rule (section 8.6 Mission Types and Their Impact on Movement), not conventional transport loading/unloading speeds.

Section 8.1 of the manual implies that Fast Transport ship classes may be BB, BC, CA, CL, CLAA, CS, DD, DE, APD, ML, MSW, AV, DM, DMS, AO, AP, PC, PG.

This is completely wrong information. Form a single ship Fast Transport task force while at port. Attempt to transfer ships into the task force and you will see exactly what ships can actually be put into the task force. It most certainly is not the above list.

originally posted by Mr. Frag

Section 8.1 of the manual implies that Fast Transport ship classes may be BB, BC, CA, CL, CLAA, CS, DD, DE, APD, ML, MSW, AV, DM, DMS, AO, AP, PC, PG.

Please forgive the simplicity of the question - but playing the USN exclusively I've only ever used FT TFs to bef up Luganville and Efate, so bear with me :

I know some cruisers have a capacity number listed in their information screen (e.g. Chicago, IIRC, has a capacity of 4, but Australia has a capacity of 0)

Aren't the ship types on the above list available for FT able to actually transport troops based on their capacity?

And if so, wouldn't that preclude some of the above-listed tyes from carrying anything but their own crew?

No, that capacity is aircraft carried.

Non-transport ships have a emergency capacity which is calculated based on their fuel capacity in a 4 to 1 ratio (section 8.21) (this is somewhat questionable as a Japan DD with 133 fuel loads 250, a CL with 208 fuel loads 450, a CA with 466 fuel loads 450, ML's are 300, AV's are 300 but too slow to use this way, seems like the was hardcoded based on ship class after the manual was written)

Ships use this as well for rescuing troops from sinking ships. (mentioned in section 20.2)

Couple this with the "fast load/unload rule" (section 8.6) and that is all there is for information on how these work.

I'm not complaining that the manual is wrong and out of date, but it would be nice if someone who actually knows what should be happening could explain it to us and put this one to rest for good.

I have added this to the list.

Good reporting!