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Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:31 pm
by Cabido
I've created a sheet of charts in order to make playing the game easier. There is also a flow with tips to evaluate relative combat capabilities of units.

When I began to play TOAW, I usually felt frustrated at how some combat results seemed arbitrary to me. I noticed many other players complaining about it, too. The Toaw "black box" may give reasonable results, but not being able to identify the variables that came into play after a counter-intuitive combat result can bring up a feeling of caotic randomness.

After trying to really understand what was going on behind the scenes, I noticed that the game gradually became MUCH MORE rewarding to play. I've produced a sheet with charts and combat evaluation flow in order to help me remember the important aspects to keep in mind. Since I noticed it could be useful to other players, I adapted it with some more info in order to have an almost complete reference chart. I've thrown in what I thought was most important in order to understand how the game calculates things under the hood so,for that reason, things like a movement cost table were left out; after all, we are able to get the values while playing and there is no difficulty in understanding movement.

Before someone suggests this is meant to try to micromanage details of the game, I must state that it was exactly to avoid that that I've created this chart. My goal was to create a procedure which, after a while should become intuitive, while trying to understand the role of the multiple variables in play.

Please, notice that there may be some misunderstanding of concepts in the suggested proceedings. I have no access to the in-game calculations, just information from the manual and from discussions in this forum. Any criticism will be welcome. If someone thinks something is unclear or that there is some serious english error, speak willingly. Imperfect or not, I now find results much more in line with my predictions and have felt more able to diagnose why some attack or defense went wrong.

The forum doesn't allow me to send links until seven days after my tenth post. I don't know how I can make it available to the rest of you. I tried to send it as image, without success also.

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:35 pm
by Oberst_Klink
Easy fix, Kamerad. Post your chart via link from the cloud.

BUT, remember von Moltke - Therefore no plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force.

That is true even for TOAW IV.

Klink, Oberst

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:49 pm
by Cabido
I must be missing something. This is exactly what I've tried. The forum didn't allow me to post the written link, even if I mess it up a bit.

And, well, you're right about certainties. Yet, I don't want complete control of situation, just some control.

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:09 pm
by Cabido
From back to front, since the forum isn't allowing me to send links.
yCG0MuYRDo/lt.ew//:sptth

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:46 pm
by Cabido
If someone would be king enough to invert the link so that it displays correctly, I would be grateful.

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:08 pm
by randy44
thanks for charts. can't post...Matrix merged accounts suck!

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:26 pm
by Foggy

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:26 pm
by DanNeely
ORIGINAL: Cabido

From back to front, since the forum isn't allowing me to send links.
yCG0MuYRDo/lt.ew//:sptth

Done

https://we.tl/oDRYuM0GCy

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:46 am
by Oberst_Klink
ORIGINAL: Cabido

I must be missing something. This is exactly what I've tried. The forum didn't allow me to post the written link, even if I mess it up a bit.

And, well, you're right about certainties. Yet, I don't want complete control of situation, just some control.
Nice one! In fact, I'd attach it to the Tutorial 'xx series, with our permission as supportive documentation. I'll mention you of course in the credits.

Klink, Oberst

P.S. Feliz Natal!

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:33 am
by Cabido
ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
Nice one! In fact, I'd attach it to the Tutorial 'xx series, with our permission as supportive documentation. I'll mention you of course in the credits.

Klink, Oberst

P.S. Feliz Natal!

Sure. Be my guest. If you first think I should change something, just tell me. After all, your experience with the game is much greater than mine.

Frohe Weihnachten, Herr Klink.

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:15 pm
by larryfulkerson
I took a look at your PDF and I must say: I'm impressed. Lot's of work went into
that file. I applaud your efforts to enrich the TOAW community. We owe you.

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:17 pm
by Silvanski
Very useful to have this information in one place. Great job!
I still have a copy of the Terrain Effects Chart by Telumar. I'm gonna compare it with your TOAW IV info to see if there have been any significant changes.

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:15 pm
by Cabido
Thanks Larry and Silvanski. I forgot to thank the guys who posted the link. A simple think, but I really needed the help.

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:53 pm
by Cabido
https://ufile.io/hgyet

Version 1.2 of my Sheet of Charts. Simplified the tips on relative strength evaluation and corrected some points, added hotkeys and one or two other pieces of information. Also, got a better disposition of the text, since the program I used kinda mess it up when exporting. I have uploaded it to a server that only keeps the file for 30 days. Is there some repository for useful Toaw files somewhere?

EDIT: Btw, it would be very useful to be able to set different colors to different strength values displayed on the counter. When toggling through values using the M key, sometimes I have to go all the way through to the single MP value in order to know what values are being displayed. If just I could set colors to the different displayed values...

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:22 pm
by Meyer1
Hey, does anyone has a working link for this? Thanks.

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:26 pm
by Cabido
I have included it as an extra in my graphics mod.

http://toawstuff.000webhostapp.com

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:34 pm
by MikeJ19
Cabido,

Wow, that is awesome - I really like the look of your mod. I will have to download it shortly.

Thanks for sharing!

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:56 pm
by Meyer1
ORIGINAL: Cabido

I have included it as an extra in my graphics mod.

http://toawstuff.000webhostapp.com
Oh, I was wondering why wasn't included in your TOAW page [:)]

Thank you.

RE: Sheet of Charts and Tips for combat success probability evaluation

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:42 pm
by Cabido
ORIGINAL: Meyer1

ORIGINAL: Cabido

I have included it as an extra in my graphics mod.

http://toawstuff.000webhostapp.com
Oh, I was wondering why wasn't included in your TOAW page [:)]

Thank you.

You mean the charts? In fact the page was created hastily just to host the graphics mod. When I was compressing the files for the mod, I noticed the charts just sitting there on a sub folder and though it would be nice to add it as an extra. I may add it alone later, but I want to do some changes first.