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Question about Refit
Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:43 pm
by Joneleth
As far as I can tell about refit is that
1. Units without refit will only replace up to 60/80 of TOE
2. Units without refit will get replacements after those with refit.
I cant find anything bad associated with being in refit mode, so assuming i dont have specific units I quickly want to prioritize, is there any reason i wouldnt place all units in permanent refit mode so they will go to 100% TOE?
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:30 am
by elloboloco
Here is what I have found:
It is not true that units without refit will only replace 60/80 percent of TOE. Units not set to refit will still get replacements during phase 3 of the replacement cycle. This will usually be the bulk of your units in the field, many in contact with the enemy. Thus, the replacements are spread around and the effect gradual. The replacements available each cycle are distributed among three phases, replacement phase A, B, and then the general replacement to non-refit units. I use the refit cycle to get replacements and rest/training to units that are new or that have been reduced due to combat. This works best when they are taken out of the line and 'rested' on a railroad hex at least 10 hexes from the enemy. This improves not only the strength of the unit but the moral and training as well. Don't overload your refit cycle with too many units or you will really not be prioritizing anybody. Also, open the unit window and ensure the maximum TOE is set to 100. Hope this helps.
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:33 am
by Joneleth
ORIGINAL: elloboloco
Here is what I have found:
It is not true that units without refit will only replace 60/80 percent of TOE. Units not set to refit will still get replacements during phase 3 of the replacement cycle. This will usually be the bulk of your units in the field, many in contact with the enemy. Thus, the replacements are spread around and the effect gradual. The replacements available each cycle are distributed among three phases, replacement phase A, B, and then the general replacement to non-refit units. I use the refit cycle to get replacements and rest/training to units that are new or that have been reduced due to combat. This works best when they are taken out of the line and 'rested' on a railroad hex at least 10 hexes from the enemy. This improves not only the strength of the unit but the moral and training as well. Don't overload your refit cycle with too many units or you will really not be prioritizing anybody. Also, open the unit window and ensure the maximum TOE is set to 100. Hope this helps.
But the manual states that units not in refit will only replace up to 60% for soviet side, and 80% for german side after 1941, is the manual wrong then?
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:35 am
by elloboloco
You may get a better understanding of how the replacement phase works by reading the 'event log' under the 'Info Screen Tab.'
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:38 am
by elloboloco
Well, units will replace all the way to 100 percent, as long as the right kind of equipment is available, but may take more than one turn. You will have to balance the rate of replacement against the needs of the situation. Once a unit is over 90 percent, certainly by 95 percent, send it to battle!
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 12:40 am
by elloboloco
I routinely see units not in refit mode built up to 100% or more! It depends on if they are in contact with the enemy and how much activity they are undertaking.
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:03 am
by 56ajax
ORIGINAL: Joneleth
ORIGINAL: elloboloco
Here is what I have found:
It is not true that units without refit will only replace 60/80 percent of TOE. Units not set to refit will still get replacements during phase 3 of the replacement cycle. This will usually be the bulk of your units in the field, many in contact with the enemy. Thus, the replacements are spread around and the effect gradual. The replacements available each cycle are distributed among three phases, replacement phase A, B, and then the general replacement to non-refit units. I use the refit cycle to get replacements and rest/training to units that are new or that have been reduced due to combat. This works best when they are taken out of the line and 'rested' on a railroad hex at least 10 hexes from the enemy. This improves not only the strength of the unit but the moral and training as well. Don't overload your refit cycle with too many units or you will really not be prioritizing anybody. Also, open the unit window and ensure the maximum TOE is set to 100. Hope this helps.
But the manual states that units not in refit will only replace up to 60% for soviet side, and 80% for german side after 1941, is the manual wrong then?
Refit does improve Morale quicker but not training ie experience. Each turn a units experience will increase by about 3 points until it reaches a value of 50% of the national Morale, after that it is 1 point per turn
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:48 am
by Joneleth
ORIGINAL: elloboloco
Well, units will replace all the way to 100 percent, as long as the right kind of equipment is available, but may take more than one turn. You will have to balance the rate of replacement against the needs of the situation. Once a unit is over 90 percent, certainly by 95 percent, send it to battle!
Well thats disheartening, if I cant trust the manual with this amount of mechanics in a game, then how will i ever get a firm grasp on the game.
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 6:05 am
by tyronec
Well thats disheartening, if I cant trust the manual with this amount of mechanics in a game, then how will i ever get a firm grasp on the game.
This is a complex game. Unfortunately the relationship between the manual and the mechanics is also complex. The way to get a grasp on how the mechanics work include:
Both manuals.
Patch update notes.
Postings on the forum, there is some good stuff in the war room.
Reading AARs.
Asking questions.
Experience.
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:22 am
by AFV
Regardless of what you set your units at, you only have so many resources. Use refit to prioritize where you want your replacements to go. Setting them all to refit is not much different than setting none of them to refit.
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:08 am
by Joneleth
ORIGINAL: tyronec
Well thats disheartening, if I cant trust the manual with this amount of mechanics in a game, then how will i ever get a firm grasp on the game.
This is a complex game. Unfortunately the relationship between the manual and the mechanics is also complex. The way to get a grasp on how the mechanics work include:
Both manuals.
Patch update notes.
Postings on the forum, there is some good stuff in the war room.
Reading AARs.
Asking questions.
Experience.
where can i find all patch notes, not just the newest ones?
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:15 am
by Telemecus
ORIGINAL: Jo
where can i find all patch notes, not just the newest ones?
Click where the red arrow points to
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:56 pm
by thedoctorking
Also, I believe units in refit mode are nerfed in combat, so don't put them where the enemy can get at them.
Ten hexes from the front is nice, but remember that you have to spend vehicles and fatigue to get them back there, and again back up to the front. It might be better to have them in rear-area positions, out of the way of the enemy, but not too far in case you need them.
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:58 pm
by thedoctorking
ORIGINAL: Joneleth
ORIGINAL: tyronec
Well thats disheartening, if I cant trust the manual with this amount of mechanics in a game, then how will i ever get a firm grasp on the game.
This is a complex game. Unfortunately the relationship between the manual and the mechanics is also complex. The way to get a grasp on how the mechanics work include:
Both manuals.
Patch update notes.
Postings on the forum, there is some good stuff in the war room.
Reading AARs.
Asking questions.
Experience.
where can i find all patch notes, not just the newest ones?
There's also a patch archive in the stickied section of the main forum here.
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 10:32 pm
by Aufklaerungs
Also, I believe units in refit mode are nerfed in combat, so don't put them where the enemy can get at them.
Amen. Try not to learn this the hard way. Make sure your units likely to come into contact with the enemy are set to READY.
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Wed May 02, 2018 11:17 pm
by thedoctorking
If a unit is in RESERVE mode, and the enemy comes adjacent, I think it automatically goes to READY. Or fights as normal, anyway. Correct?
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 1:30 am
by AFV
I don't see in the manual that refit causes combat power to be nerfed. Where was this found?
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:17 am
by thedoctorking
ORIGINAL: AFV
I don't see in the manual that refit causes combat power to be nerfed. Where was this found?
Sad experience. Somewhere in the patch notes.
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 3:56 am
by Stelteck
I thought the penalty for units in refit mode was fortification building, not combat. But i maybe wrong of course.
(Same for units in reserve mode).
RE: Question about Refit
Posted: Thu May 03, 2018 7:40 am
by Telemecus
ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
If a unit is in RESERVE mode, and the enemy comes adjacent, I think it automatically goes to READY. Or fights as normal, anyway. Correct?
Formally is correct. I recently found out that fortification building occurs in your enemy's logistics phase, not your own. So leaving forward units on reserve could mean they have a lower fortification level in your opponents action phase and so could be worse off in combat.
ORIGINAL: Stelteck
I thought the penalty for units in refit mode was fortification building, not combat. But i maybe wrong of course.
(Same for units in reserve mode).
The developers have confirmed this a while ago, but again I am not convinced they were considering the indirect effects. There was an argument too that units left on refit next to enemy units during logistics would lead to greater attrition. I remember someone posting a test of this although a long time ago. At least it has left me with enough doubts to avoid putting anything that is or could be in contact with the enemy in logistics to be on refit.