Matrix Games Forums

Well I have just completed this scenario. I will say that this is the first LIVE scenario I have properly played through since the first one, Old Grudges Never Die. The reason for this is that most of the LIVE scenarios I have found to be rather intimidating in terms of their size and scope. It's not the scenarios, it's me, haha.

Anyway, I knew I was going to seriously take a crack at this one when i read the initial announcement. Several things made me very interested: A) Indo Pak Clash; B) Heavy emphasis on new non-US Aircraft Carriers; C) UK-India Alliance

So Having played it now, I really did enjoy it, even though it certainly went a bit differently than I expected.

I played on the UK-India Side

Early on, I established patrol zones for my four submarines, and established two AEW patterns. I also set up one big ASW patrol for each of the carrier groups to be activated later.

The first engagement was my first two MiGs, the ones starting in the air, blasting a scout Helicopter, but I lost them to some F-16s that were sent after them.

Subsequently most of the air combat was actually my F-35s blasting Helicopters and MPAs. I don't think the Sino-Paks ever got a fix on any of my carriers.

I did find the Pak Frigates relatively early on with the exceptional F-35 radars, and once I was able to re-arm some MiGs, I launched an ASuW strike escorted by some F-35s. The strike succeeded in blasting half of the Frigates. A follow up raid was not needed, as the other three frigates got in cruise missile range of the Vikrant's escorts, and firing all 12 of those missiles was enough to finish off Pakistan's last three surface ships, though one did take a while to sink.

As for the Sino-Pak submarines, well I was ultimately able to find and sink all five of them, but at the cost of the INS Chakra and INS Shalki. I used ASW helos along with my submarines to sink them at various points. The loss of those two submarines were the only deductions in points i suffered.

Ultimately the most successful asset I had was actually the Astute class submarine HMS Ambush. I made very good use of her 16 Tomahawks. I initially tried to fire four at the Bridge, but I made a mistake and only two fired, and they were very far apart launch wise. The first missile was shot down. And as the second made it's final turn toward the Pakistani coast, I just wrote off that Missile as a waste. But to my total shock, It got through and destroyed the bridge!!!! "That Works!!!" I shouted.

From that point I decided to expend my remaining Tomahawks at the Oil Refinery at the Naval Base, because I did not have a fix on the Pakistani Ground Forces. It took some frustrating trial and error, but i ultimately destroyed the Refinery with Tomahawks. I also used two of them to blast the JY-26 radar.

It was also around this time that two patrolling Pakistani F-16s showed up near my forces and shot down two of my helicopters. I blasted them with MiGs though.

Now I decided to take a risk and start preparing for an airstrike on the Pakistani Armored Brigade. I started off by launching an escorted SEAD raid around Ormara. This raid was very successful for two reasons: I basically knocked out the HQ-16 SAM battery, and I got a location on the Armored Brigade thanks again to the F-35's sensors. However those SAMs also shot down 3 of the 4 SEAD MiGs.

Once I was able to arm my aircraft effectively, several hours later game-time, I launched the Airstrike. 8 F-35s (4 escorts, 4 with JDAMs) alongside 4 MiGs with Cluster Bombs.

They reached the target with no issues, but a smaller air defense unit was able to shoot down one of the MiGs. The rest of the aircraft released their ordinance, scoring several hits, destroying 3 trucks and 15 tanks.

Being satisfied with the work I have done, and not wanting to take any more losses, once my aircraft return to the ships, I set flank speed to the south out of the battle area. Once I am quite far enough away, and with no signs of a counter attack incoming, I end the scenario.

My final score: Triumph with 1400 points.

I was certainly surprised to have not had a major air attack thrown at me, but I think that may be because I denied the Sino-Paks any chance of getting a serious fix on me by blasting every search aircraft I could.

Here are the losses and expenditures:

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
6x MiG-29K Fulcrum D
1x S 44 Shishumar [Type 209-1500]
1x S 71 Chakra [PLA-971I Akula II]
1x Merlin ASaC.1 [Interim]
1x SA.316B Chetak MATCH [ASW, Alouette III]


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
12x AA-12 Adder A [R-77, RVV-AE]
26x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
36x AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM P3I.2
4x Generic Acoustic Decoy
16x AS-17 Krypton A [Kh-31A, ASM]
16x SS-N-27 Sizzler [3M54E1 Klub]
20x SSQ-926 ALFEA
4x TEST-71ME
86x SSQ-963D CAMBS VI
3x SS-N-15 Starfish [RPK-6 Vodopad, UMGT-1 Torpedo]
3x AN/ALE-70 FOTD
1x MG-114 Berilly
16x UGM-109E Tomahawk Blk IV TACTOM
6x Spearfish Mod 0
1x Stingray Mod 1
2x AS-17 Krypton C [Kh-31P, ARM]
27x RGB-NM-1 [Passive Omni]
4x Aster 30 PAAMS [GWS.45 Sea Viper]
8x GBU-32(V)2/B JDAM [Mk83]
12x RBK-500-PTAB CB [268 x PTAB-1M Anti-Tank Bomblets]



SIDE: Pakistan Ground Forces
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
3x Vehicle (Truck, Armed Technical)
15x Type 59-II Main Battle Tank


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
6x RB 70 Rayrider Mk1



SIDE: Pakistan-China
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
3x Z-9EC Dauphin 2
2x F.27-200MAR Maritime
2x BN-2T Turbine Islander
4x Lynx HAS.3
2x BZK-005 Sea Eagle UAV
3x F 251 Zulfiquar [F-22P Class, Mod Type 053H3 Jiangwei II]
1x F 181 Tariq [Type 21 Amazon Class]
1x F 260 Alamgir [Perry Class]
1x F 182 Babur [Type 21 Amazon Class]
8x F-16AM Falcon MLU
1x Type 093 Shang
1x Bridge (Single-lane 60 Tons)
1x Radar (China JY-26)
1x Structure (Oil Refinery)
1x Vehicle (ELINT [Average])
1x Type 093B Shang
2x S 139 Improved Khalid [Agosta 90B]
1x Vehicle (HQ-16 FCR)
2x HQ-16B TEL
1x Type 091 Han


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
46x SSQ-947 Julie Active Range-Only [AN/SSQ-47]
42x AIM-120C-5 AMRAAM P3I.2
4x Yu-6
6x 30mm China H/PJ-12 [Type 730, 240 rnds]
22x Generic Chaff Rocket
9x 76mm/62 Compact HE Burst [4 rnds]
6x 20mm/100 Mk15 Phalanx Blk 1B Burst [300 rnds]
18x 114mm/55 Mk8 HE(MP) HE
6x Corvus Chaff [Distraction]
6x Corvus Chaff [Seduction]
8x Mk214 Sea Gnat Chaff [Seduction]
8x Mk234 Nulka
2x 20mm/85 Mk15 Phalanx Blk 0 Burst [200 rnds]
20x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]
4x YJ-82 [YJ-802Q]
10x Generic Acoustic Decoy
1x AIM-9M Sidewinder
40x 35mm Twin Oerlikon Burst [20 rnds, UAR-1021 Skyguard]
4x Generic Acoustic Decoy
7x HQ-16B

Nice write up!

I finished the UK/Indian side up very quickly, about 12 hrs of game time. Once I found the Pakistani SAGs and got a handle on their air cover I launched all my CV aircraft except for a single pair of Fulcrum fighters as a backup intercept to attack them. Was able to smash the ships, with only two remaining (both significantly damaged) and have a pair of Lightnings drop the bridge on the first strike. My F-35 fighters played footsie with the Pakistani CAP but the Pakistani's WRA for AMRAAM is set too far so they launch as soon as they can and run for the barn as soon as they run out. This meant I just dashed out of AMRAAM range before the missiles could close. Only found one SAM site and had already eliminated the EW radar in the area so I was able to drop JDAMs on it before they opened fire. Ran two more full-up airstrikes in to pummel the Pakistani targets. The Indian MiGs' best ord are their EO bombs, though they typically need the F-35 along to spot targets for them.

Playing from the Pak/Chinese side will likely be quite a bit more challenging!

I had a similar situation as India/UK.

I started out with running air battles between my F-35s and the Paki F-16s, losing 2 F-35s for 8 F-16 kills. Despite some terse moments, my subs were able to eliminate 3 enemy subs and all of the SAG except 1 frigate which was dispatched by some ASMs. For the bridge strike, I lost 2 Mig-29s to the HQ-16, but destroyed the bridge and oil refinery in good order. Just as I was about to wrap things up, I lost a DDG to a sub attack. No airstrike was launched on my ships, and if one was, I was confident that I could handle it easily.

This AAR contains some generic (and specific) material that could considered to be a spoiler. Proceed with caution.

I just finished the scenario, and I do think that it was a fun one to play.

I had similar results to what everyone else had, other than the following:

From the UK/Indian side, my Mig 29s had a problem being able to keep up with the PAK F-16s. The F-16s had longer missile ranges and in each exchange a few Mig 29s would get splashed, with no F-16s going down. This was an obvious advantage to the PAK side.

The F-35s were cool. They managed to down a couple of F-16s before they ran out of their very limited supply of missiles. This was a problem because after all sides were out of fighters, the PAK side was able to send up some recce a/c and the found my two Indian CVBGs. A missile launch on the Vikrant group by a Chinese nuclear sub using YJ-18 surface-skimming missiles resulted in the loss of one Frigate, and the Vikrant itself was damaged. These missiles are awesome because they aren't seen, and can't be attacked until they are essentially right on top of you. While the Vikrant only suffered 26 percent damage, most was to the flight deck, and that rendered it incapable of having planes take off and land. Plus, all of the Mig 29 fighters seemed to come from that ship, so that effectively wiped out most of my CAP.

The Vikramditya CVBG was able to launch some Pj-10 Brahmos surface-skimming (these are great, too) SSMs against one located PAK SAG and they easily destroyed it, and an IN sub was able to take out the other 3-ship SAG.

That left a few other subs to deal with. One was destroyed by one of my other subs, and the other was lost and never located again.

At this point the objectives seemed to be at hand. I launched my SEAD Mig 29s from the Vikramditya and guess what they ran into? They ran into a bunch of F-16s that had just started south again after being re-fueled and re-armed. With some help from the SA-16, 6 of the 8 SEAD missiles were destroyed. I did manage to knock out a SA-16 tel, however.

I then used my UK sub to launch 16 Tomahawks at the SA-16, the Bridge and the Oil Refinery, knocking all of them out of the way with ease. (I didn't read anyone else's AAR where they had taken this approach. Perhaps they did, and I just missed it.) I followed that up with the 4 F-35s armed with the GBUs, but they had no briefing-related targets to hit, since they were all destroyed. Just as they were about to leave the area, a nondescript PAK a/c appeared. The F-35s knocked it out of the sky. Little did I know that it carried "the Admiral", thus scoring a lot of points.

The briefing indicated that there were likely "PAK strike aircraft" located in the airports to the west, so I flew the 4 F-35s in that direction, not knowing what I would find. Soon, their radars were able to pick up many of the PAK strikers out in the open on the tarmac. The F-35s were able to destroy about half of the standing aircraft before retiring back to their base. On the way back they located a PAK drone that had been sent down to try and locate the CV QE. Fortunately, it was found before it got close enough.

After the F-35s landed, I had no air cover. All of the main targets listed in the briefing had been destroyed. It seemed pointless to stick around and see if one of the drones, or another surveillance plane could ultimately discover the QE's position so that it could be shot at, so I had all three CVBGs head back south, and out of the PAK land-based attack area. The UK/India group had taught the PAKs a lesson.

I won the scenario with a Triumph victory, scoring 1100 points.

Notes:

The UK sub, with the 16 Tomahawks did most of the work in this scenario, destroying all of the targets listed in the briefing.

The F-35s were clearly superior to the F-16s, just as the F-16s were clearly superior to the Mig 29s.

The lack of CAP aircraft was almost always a problem.

The Chinese surface skimming missiles (YJ-18) and the Indian ones (Brahmos) were extremely potent, and neither side had any kind of SAMs on their ships that were able to stop them.

The Vikrant really could have been sunk, but a second wave of missiles, launched from a distance and using a way-point, just missed the carrier.

While it was out-of-commission for the rest of the battle due to the earlier damage, it wasn't sunk, so that was a plus. But, that was also another reason to leave the area as it was nothing but a sitting duck.

It was a very quick, easy, fun, well-thought out scenario, and one that I would recommend to everyone.

Doug

I do find it quite intriguing that there seems to be a variety in terms of detailed experiences.

I am not a very skilled player, perhaps somewhere between novice and 'good' depending on the situation, and my CVBGs were never really in danger, neither were my F-35s except for a couple Air-to-Air engagements where all of the enemy missiles were defeated.

Truth be told, my operation was rather on the sloppy side. I didn't coordinate much of my forces well, my ASW operations were not very sophisticated at all, there was even a rather long period of time when the CVBGs were just sitting at 'all stop'.

I kind of went into this scenario with a more passive/defensive mindset:

I have a very short list of targets, only one of which is listed as 'you must do this' (stopping the Armored brigade by ether destroying it or the bridge). The Oil Refinery and Admiral are apparently 'optional' targets of opportunity. I did not seriously consider trying to hunt down the Admiral to be honest. I didn't want to take any risks to my valuable forces trying to find and kill him. My thinking was that he would be rendered useless anyway by wiping out Pakistan's surviving Navy. Yeah your admiral is alive, but what good is he if there is no navy left?

My strategy was to concentrate on destroying the remnants of the Sino-Pak naval forces, mainly the Frigates, as well as concentrate on fending off what I thought was going to be inevitable air attacks. Only after at least blasting the frigates and attriting enemy strike aircraft with CAP would I try to hit the assigned targets. Honestly, I was just too chicken to try any sorties over Pakistan until after that SEAD raid, which I was very nervous about launching, which I only got just enough confidence to do after destroying the JY-26 radar with Tomahawks.

And when I launched my ending airstrike on the Armored brigade, the MiGs were only just barely able to get over the target before hitting Bingo fuel, that was a near run thing for those Indian naval aviators.

I was not expecting to achieve victory on this first playthrough. I was expecting to do what I could to the Sino-Pak forces, try to keep my flattops and their air wings, and have striking the land targets be a more secondary consideration. Victory conditions aside, my intention, above all else, was to protect my carriers.

Given this diversity in experiences I am seeing, I think I may have just gotten lucky by blasting every recon helo, UAV, and MPA I could with long range CAPs, preventing the Sino-Paks from getting enough info to attempt a serious strike on my carriers.