Matrix Games Forums

Hello everyone reading this.

Sid asked for people (or two teams) to try his mod so here we are. BillBrown, btd64 and myself on the allied side. He also told us to write something (an AAR). Happy to oblige.

I always stayed away from PBEM on this game. A huge commitment I simply was not ready to accept. In theory this will be a short one if I well understood. I played three WitE PBEM games (as a Soviet) + AARs, and one AGEOD American Civil War 2 PBEM + AAR. I obviously played to death, or non-stop, witp since 2004 (vs AI).

Said this, I don't even know how far we'll go [:D]

I will be in charge of the mighty Chinese and the British (India, Burma and doomed Malaya).

I am the Catcher, Pitcher, 2nd Base, and Center Fielder. I.E. I have the middle of the map.

I control Australia, D.E.I., the P.I. and the Soviet Union. In this mod the Soviet Union is active
but we are not at war.

I jsut realized that I am also the Short Stop since I also control New Caldonia, the Solomon Islands and New Britain.
And I guess also New Guinea.

Wow, lots of places.

And I have the map from New Zealand and East to the right map edge, North to Canada and Alaska. More to come....GP

Re China.

No matter what Sid says, China is a sideshow. He's done an excellent job though in my opinion.

In this mod in theory:

1) the Japanese cannot defeat the Chinese
2) the Chinese will never kick the Japanese out on their own.

As it should be... the rest is The Twilight Zone.

Sooo, more bases and [Chinese] troops were added, I assume a historical OOB.

And the river navigation... this is a totally different picture now. [Chungking] Reserves finally make sense. What's the point exactly if you cannot move, deploy your reserves when they are badly needed?

River navigation: Sian - Yenan area.

River navigation: Center.

River navigation: Nanning - Canton

Another difference, which striked me. Supplies are not an issue. I reserve judgement. The thing is 1) and 2) are unaffected.

1) the Japanese cannot defeat the Chinese
2) the Chinese will never kick the Japanese out on their own.

But of course this also means the transport planes sent by FDR to help via the hump are sort of irrelevant [?] unless I'm missing something.

Screenshot is from a game: may '42.

My turn on consisted mainly of getting most of the Subs at Manila out to sea, all bombers in the PI set to Naval Attack, CAP set.
Most of the Soviet air units have been filled to 133% pilots and set to training. Fighters took precedence.
I have set up some cargo TFs to ship fuel and Resources from the DEI to Australia. OZ is short on Resources, and I will have
let the LI and HI not produce at 100%. I will do what I can, but I can not see shipping Resources from the USA, this mod
has LI needing 12 resources for 2 supply. It is much better to have Brian ship supply to OZ.
Much of what I will do has to wait for the first few turns to see what happens.

My main effort will be to keep the SLOC open. And defend the West Coast from San Diego to Adak Island. I have already transfered 2 PBY squadrons to canton which will be deployed to Suva and Pago
To that end I'm going to reinforce Suva and surrounding bases, and build up and distribution hub at Vava'i Island. Spelling is wrong, sorry.
But for now NZ will be that hub.

Adak will become a sub base at some point. Provided I still own it.

At PH half of the battle force is relocating to Lahania with some support ships. We have Cap set as well. A couple of squadrons have moved with half the Battle fleet as well. These are steps being taken in reply to the latest War Warning....GP

So-called plans. [As Tyson once said: "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"]

Malaya.

Everyone retreats to Singapore (certainly what they will eventually do) or some sort of defensive lines are put in place. I choose the latter, in the western side of the peninsula (atrocious communications in the east).

They will obviously melt like snow under the sun but he will need to fight to advance.

As for the British 18th division. They might be sent to Singapore and gloriously surrender eh. They will buy exactly what? One, two weeks?

But we do know [because we restarted the first turn -something went wrong] that Sid is going to invade Efate (7 december, like a boss!) ROFL

That definitely throws gentleman's fair play (or the gamey thing) out of the window. So the 18th is probably going to Burma (one brigade might be sent to other fronts, NEI, Australia or South Pacific).

Prince of Wales and friends will try to attack Japanese landings. LRCAP this turn and the next one minimum. If somehow they manage to survive, they will be delivered to the ABDA command (Bill).

I'm still working out a strategy in China. I'm pretty sure I know what I need to do. Should be child's play after my WitE (vs sneaky humans) games: managing what us players called 1-1 ants during Barbarossa was a lot of fun. Weakest units ever and yet... if *correctly* used they could successfully harass, cut off and in the end *stop* the mighty ultra mobile and lethal Wehrmacht.

But time will tell.

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Another difference, which striked me. Supplies are not an issue. I reserve judgement. The thing is 1) and 2) are unaffected.

1) the Japanese cannot defeat the Chinese
2) the Chinese will never kick the Japanese out on their own.

But of course this also means the transport planes sent by FDR to help via the hump are sort of irrelevant [?] unless I'm missing something.

Screenshot is from a game: may '42.

In RL, the Hump effort brought US-made supplies for the US air units in China. In the game, the supply is universal and the US air units in China can use China-made supplies. Since supply in RHS is ample almost everywhere, it renders the whole re-creation of Hump effort in the game redundant.

ORIGINAL: Yaab
In RL, the Hump effort brought US-made supplies for the US air units in China. In the game, the supply is universal and the US air units in China can use China-made supplies. Since supply in RHS is ample almost everywhere, it renders the whole re-creation of Hump effort in the game redundant.

Indeed.

China excluded, supplies per se are not the problem IMHO. With some nuances and after a normal chaotic period (first months of a war) the US were more or less producing what their limited operations required.

Sources are quite contundent: logistics were the problem ie there was a full warehouse, now how do you get x from A to B. The next thing they [sources] constantly mention is the mythical lack of shipping.

Where is that lack of shipping in the game? I never ever saw it: stock, CHS, Da Big Babes and now RHS.

I understand Sid wanted to fix this issue. But -as you say- there are surpluses basically everywhere. Even the weak link (Australia) produces IIRC circa 4.000 supplies per day = 120.000 per month. They do not need resources either (surplus). Fuel or oil, ok, but that's all. You might send extra supplies to feed the SW beast, but this can be done with a tiny fraction of the available shipping.

So why move stuff (resources and oil) from A to B if you're literally swimming in astronomical quantities of everything? That's what I'd like to know.

Stuff is ample, because there is Res/Oil/LI/HI centers on the map everywhere. The only way to reduce the supply/fuel from ballooning and create a real deficit somewhere, is a TOTAL, UNRESTRICTED air bombing campaign starting December 7, 1941.

Well, The December 7th turn was rough on Pearl. At the same time I saved half of the battle fleet from being hit and possible sunk. The Battleships Nevada and Oklahoma were sunk. Oklahoma took one bomb and suffered an ammo storage explosion. The image below shows other ship and base damage. Enterprise was heading for Wake to pull off the fighter detachment. That won't happen as Wake island fell on turn one. The lost detachment killed 2 Japanese aircraft before the base was over run. One IJN sub was sunk by mines at the mouth of San Francisco Bay[:)]. Well that's it for the combat part for now. Signing off....GP

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

ORIGINAL: Yaab
In RL, the Hump effort brought US-made supplies for the US air units in China. In the game, the supply is universal and the US air units in China can use China-made supplies. Since supply in RHS is ample almost everywhere, it renders the whole re-creation of Hump effort in the game redundant.

Indeed.

China excluded, supplies per se are not the problem IMHO. With some nuances and after a normal chaotic period (first months of a war) the US were more or less producing what their limited operations required.

Sources are quite contundent: logistics were the problem ie there was a full warehouse, now how do you get x from A to B. The next thing they [sources] constantly mention is the mythical lack of shipping.

Where is that lack of shipping in the game? I never ever saw it: stock, CHS, Da Big Babes and now RHS.

I understand Sid wanted to fix this issue. But -as you say- there are surpluses basically everywhere. Even the weak link (Australia) produces IIRC circa 4.000 supplies per day = 120.000 per month. They do not need resources either (surplus). Fuel or oil, ok, but that's all. You might send extra supplies to feed the SW beast, but this can be done with a tiny fraction of the available shipping.

So why move stuff (resources and oil) from A to B if you're literally swimming in astronomical quantities of everything? That's what I'd like to know.

True that.

The only way to fix it and employ shipping, is to create HUGE resource deficitis in supply-producing economies.

First, USA needs to start with most of its LI/HI disabled to simulate the expansion of its war economy. UK should have all its LI/HI up and running from the start .

USA

AFAIK, Lokasenna (or Bullwinkle?) once said, that during WW II, CONUSA was not self-suficient, and ships moved resources from South America to USA.This could be simulated by in-game creating res deficit in CONUSA and res surplus in the off-map South America. Since USA is in every mod the biggest producer of on-map supply, there would be no other country to step up and make up for USA's lost production. Thus, Allied players would be forced to use shipping to haul resources to USA. The drawback of this method is the limited numbers of South American ports, which can get easily overwhelmed by huge resource convoys coming from USA.

UK/ South Africa and India.

Same thing. Create res deficits in UK/South Africa and res surplus in India. Give India some barebone LI industry to produce pistols and Enfield rifles for its police force. Employ shipping en masse to move resources from India to UK.

Now, in order to ease the workload for Allied players on turn 1, the appropriate convoys should already be formed by the scenario designer and already moving on turn 1. The Allied player would only be tasked with augmenting the convoys by adding new ships as the war escalates, and new LI/HI is repaired, spurring the need for more resources.

ORIGINAL: Yaab
The only way to fix it and employ shipping, is to create HUGE resource deficitis in supply-producing economies.

It's the only rational method, I agree: deficits.

I was not kidding when I mentioned Sid's hordes were going to storm Efate. Except either I did not pay enough attention or for some reason he's changed his mind.

He storms Luganville ROFL

re Burma

Is Sid mad enough or not? Will he temporarily bypass Burma and attack India, Ceylon? This I don't know.

I am bringing a Chinese corps (3 divisions) to help + the brigades of the 17th Indian division + armored + artillery units + whatever can be used (India cannot be stripped though).

An overland advance. Problem is Sid added more bases. I'd like to mount the first barricade in Moulmein but there's an hex SW of it. If Sid doesn't capture it first and forces me to retreat after a combat, my hordes could idiotically end up retreating to this hex, completely cut off. Which is absurd but it may happen (it did vs the AI).

So to avoid this I prepare the hex NE of Moulmein = that should be the first barricade unless he captures the SW hex.

He's also threatened us () to put his paratrooper hordes to good use, which he already did in Luzon. Therefore I try to send battalions to key hexes (Akyab included) to stop his trolling.

I will be sending supplies too.

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

re Burma

Is Sid mad enough or not? Will he temporarily bypass Burma and attack India, Ceylon? This I don't know.

I am bringing a Chinese corps (3 divisions) to help + the brigades of the 17th Indian division + armored + artillery units + whatever can be used (India cannot be stripped though).

An overland advance. Problem is Sid added more bases. I'd like to mount the first barricade in Moulmein but there's an hex SW of it. If Sid doesn't capture it first and forces me to retreat after a combat, my hordes could idiotically end up retreating to this hex, completely cut off. Which is absurd but it may happen (it did vs the AI).

So to avoid this I prepare the hex NE of Moulmein = that should be the first barricade unless he captures the SW hex.

He's also threatened us () to put his paratrooper hordes to good use, which he already did in Luzon. Therefore I try to send battalions to key hexes (Akyab included) to stop his trolling.

I will be sending supplies too.

I would defend behind the river North of Moulmein and at Pegu. Pegu would be just to cover the left flank. If the position North of Moulmein becomes a problem then withdraw from Pegu and the other base to the hex to the east of Rangoon. In both cases Sid will have to cross a river to attack you....GP