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"Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it"

I am concerned genuinely worried about the upcoming days of the situation in Iraq.

I am not worried about the troops, they know the nature of their job I think.

I am not worried about the Iraqi people, they most certainly know what's happening as well.

I am genuinely concerned for the average schmuck viewer in tv land.

It is becoming apparent, to apparent, that most people have failed to learn much history.

The Gulf war went so stunningly successful, that I seriously think the average civilian has bought into the notion this is going to be a quick easy deal.

IT WON'T BE!

I sincerely believe this.

The coalition has done a fine job so far. Driving pell mell across open desert.

Baghdad is not open desert though.

Even if the coalition forces had rolled to Baghdad unopposed with zero trouble, I would be seriously concerned about the assumptions this is going to be any short term effort.

I recall the taking of Stalingrad - it wasn't taken.

Monte Cassino. What a slaughter taking that place. And several nations tried too.

Caen - they flattened it first, didn't make a difference.

Berlin - although the Russians did have disdain for their own troops.
Even with the opposition sucking wind after 6 years of all out warfare.
Even with the city totally surrounded and pounded by massive sums of artillery.
Even with hundreds of tanks.
The Russians suffered horrible casualties.

I think it is time that the average civilian woke up to the reality of urban warfare. I think the US might want to discuss things at length with the Israelis for instance.

I think the US will enter Baghdad and experience the first taste of real all out war in several decades.

It only takes one resister to fire bomb a tank.
Thats the cost of one individual willing to die, and one bottle of flammable substance, as measured against a well trained crew and a multi million dollar piece of gear.

The much reported shocking sunday, is likely going to be a much over rated event. The real fight will only begin when the US attempts to actually take Baghdad.

I for one though, would sure like to be 100% wrong on this one.

Ditto... and this brings back my original comment...

American Blood should not have been wasted on this venture...
It should have been Arab nations that intervened...
But then again... they probably wouldn't have done a **** thing anyways...

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
I for one though, would sure like to be 100% wrong on this one.

Well the real cold reality is in admitting that its better if Iraq uses WDM. In theory, according to the pentagon, we are prepared for that and pretty much expect it. Assuming the casualties from such an attack are relatively minimal it would actually be a good thing.

Cuz instead of throwing million dollar missles at them we could then throw ten million dollar missles and instead of our acceptable collateral damage threshold being 3 civilians per strike (wait this is public I have to say ZERO per strike) it would rise to 20 or 30.

So we could let loose and mop up with technology pretty fast. Like anything else its the PR B**Sh**t that means more of our troops will die so some accidental Iraqi civilians don't. What people need to realize is that civilian casualties ARE part of war and always were. Even at their worst they would only be a fraction of what other wars have seen..

This is WW3 Darnit!, This ain't your daddy's war!

But I'm only too afraid that you've hit the nail on the head.

World War 3....
wasntt there something in Revelations about fire from the sky and the apparent good guys being the evil ones. I know little of this stuff and its probably better off in its own thingy, but does this (IRAQ, etc) feel too significant for the world not to change in a massive way after this
just a thought that got through my should I shouldnt I post filter.

Without wishing to offend, but heck how else can it be said, but basing reality and anything connected to reality, and your own life on the rantings of a collection of writings possessing a level of accuracy, credibilty, and plagerism as is well documentable in the average religious tome, is fairly poor judgement.

Revelations might make for nice movie plots, but the bible is only one of several works that merely come across as no better than the Weekly World news without pictures.

So, no, I have zero interest in the bible and revelations where Iraq is concerned.

I dont base my life on the bible, let alone read it. It may have been Nostradamus anyway, but heard a lot about it on Sep 11 and the events following. Would be interesting (to me) to compare reality with those writings.
I am a realist, but there is some freaky stuff that is real.

I've got the book of Nostradamus' 'poems' if you want to call them that. Most of them are fairly nonsensical. The one released after 9/11 was a hoax.

I can't remember it but it said something about twin towers and two brothers east and west, it was just made up by someone though. Its not in any book with the name Nostradamus written on it.

The ones that might apply:

In the seventh month of 1999
A great king of Terror comes from the sky
To recieve the king of Angolmois
Before and after, Mars reigns by good fortune

This one has a month and a year. Yet makes no sense. Its one of the few passages with dates.

The year of the great seventh number passed
An apparition at time of ritual sacrafice
Not far from the age of the millenium
When the buried go out from their tombs

Early interpretation thought the 'king of terror' to be a nuclear bomb of some kind and the tombs to be 'bomb shelters'.

Libra will see the West dominate
Holding dominion over heaven and earth
No one will see the Asian forces perish
Only seven hold the hierchy in order

Now this second example could easily be interpreted thus: Libra is the star sign in the month of September. September 11th? He sees the west raiding etc etc.. And entering Afghanistan. But no one sees the forces of Osama Bin Laden or anything in particular 'perish' they're just 'gone'. There's no decisive victory.

A horrible war prepared in the West
A year later pestilence comes
So horrible that young, old, nor beast escape
Blood, fire Mecury, Mars, Jupiter, in France

The war on Iraq. A year on the start of the war, chemical weapons are used. No on survives. Something about France complaining?

Buried, apoplectic, but not dead
He will be found with hands consumed
When the city condemns the heretic
Who they believed changed their laws

Return of Osama maybe?

Last one (I promise)

The third climate completed under Arises
The year 2025 in October
The King of Persia captured by those of Egypt
Conflict, death, loss, the cross shamed

Just one with a mad date. Don't have a single clue.

However: I'll add on the end of all this, this is just a minor hobby of mine when I'm bored. Fact of the matter is that Nostradamus has had his dated articles pass by without much in the way of event and he probably just smoked too much opium. Must've been very good opium but thats against the point.

Bucket , im no fruitcake either : ) ,its interesting to determine the truth of this stuff.

To interpret any truth in these writings we have to read them how they were written. Back in his time was the 'West' even there, what is the 'west' from Nostradamus's viewpoint.etc

The reference to Mars would be war?

What nationality was he from, what is the 'great 7th number' ?

As for the Planets names in France, are Jupiter etc names of gods or representative of something.

Any thing mention oil perhaps?

Yeah, he may have misinterpred Opium high as psych ability.
I also heard he grew up with premonitions etc which led him to write these in the first place.

Thanx Bucket for the info.