Matrix Games Forums

Another couple of questions. Sorry.

1. I'm still messing around learning about it, but I've noticed that units don't seem to react much (or at all) to contact. I must be doing something wrong, I'm sure. Mostly I've seen APCs come to a halt and open fire on contacts (usually on a move to contact order, for example). Then they come under return fire but don't - when that fire is intense (with 3:1 numbers against them, for example) - drive to cover or move at all, but basically stay put until dead. Is that right? There are presently no routines built into the, as it were 'tac AI' to have them react to threats, other than to stop and fire back? Or what am I missing? I searched the SOP settings for something that might, for example, make APCs unload on contact, or seek cover, but found nothing. Mostly APCs seem to die before they unload, in the space of a a couple of minutes of fire, which is long enough to have the troops auto unload and run for cover, no?

2. Are there any 'intelligent' pathfinding routines built in? So, for example, when I order a troop to defend at a certain point, they often seem to run through active kill zones to get there, and don't get there. Does this mean I have to manually, and carefully path them to where I want them to be, instead of just one click on the spot and rely on them to use cover and concealment? Or do the SOP settings cover this - get them to use concealment? Is that what I need to use?

Sorry if these are idiotic 'I haven't read the manual properly' questions. I haven't, of course. And it may be that I'm still struggling to understand the level of 'abstraction' involved.

There is a unload on contact SOP, it's the second one from the bottom.

Defend order doesn't make them go somewhere, the waypoint for defend is the place you want them to look at. They will try to establish LOS to the defend waypoint and will try to find cover.

THanks. So the Defend order is pretty intelligent. What about getting them to retreat under fire (retreat and find cover)? Use the 'scout' option? But does that mean I can't give them a fast move order AND somehow get them to unload, retreat and find cover on contact? Or even, retreat, unload and find cover on contact?

I believe right now retreat under fire is rare only happens when the unit's morale becomes too low after being fired at for a long time, which means they are less likely to retreat if they have high morale...

I hope the dev adds a SOP option something along the lines of "Find cover on contact" as well. It's a good idea, although it might slow down your advance significantly.

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ORIGINAL: Phoenix100

1. I'm still messing around learning about it, but I've noticed that units don't seem to react much (or at all) to contact. I must be doing something wrong, I'm sure. Mostly I've seen APCs come to a halt and open fire on contacts (usually on a move to contact order, for example). Then they come under return fire but don't - when that fire is intense (with 3:1 numbers against them, for example) - drive to cover or move at all, but basically stay put until dead. Is that right? There are presently no routines built into the, as it were 'tac AI' to have them react to threats, other than to stop and fire back? Or what am I missing? I searched the SOP settings for something that might, for example, make APCs unload on contact, or seek cover, but found nothing. Mostly APCs seem to die before they unload, in the space of a a couple of minutes of fire, which is long enough to have the troops auto unload and run for cover, no?

The 'scout' command makes the vehicles escape enemy LOS and possibly pop smoke when they detect enemies.

The 'unload on contact' setting is found in the SOP menu.

There could be more independent unit behavior, but we must consider several things before implementing it. There has been some discussion here about it in the past. For example, if an infantry unit starts receiving fire, it's not always the best option to start running to a building 60 meters away. It can take forever if suppressed, and can get you killed. If a vehicle rotates to move to cover, it can expose its weaker side/rear armor when doing so. Soviet vehicles usually have extremely low reverse speeds. All his can slow down formation movement considerably. This behavior may or may not be what the player wants. Perhaps he carefully placed his unit to an open ground ambush position, between buildings, but forgot to change the SOP option, and the unit abandons the position and finds cover in a nearby building.

Just a few things to consider.

2. Are there any 'intelligent' pathfinding routines built in? So, for example, when I order a troop to defend at a certain point, they often seem to run through active kill zones to get there, and don't get there. Does this mean I have to manually, and carefully path them to where I want them to be, instead of just one click on the spot and rely on them to use cover and concealment? Or do the SOP settings cover this - get them to use concealment? Is that what I need to use?

In the SOP menu you have the 'pathfind' option. Select 'cover' if you want them to find the path with best cover.