Matrix Games Forums

Edit done 22 Feb 2019: I started this thread with enthusiasm for the new manual but that's waned so only read on if you want to.

It just arrived an hour ago. What a surprise treat. A real book - about 10 inches by 8 inches, hard cover.

Double column in type large enough to be read - 175 pages.


Best manual I've bought for years - far better than the little things stuck in the DVD box - here the DVD is inside the book hard cover.


Manual Layout credit is given in the back to Myriam Bell so congratulations to her.

Hi, you're talking about the manual supplied with boxed version of the game? I'm thinking to get this game ASAP and wondered about the printed manual that comes with it. Sounds it's worth those extra $20 plus shipping?

Thx
David

Not only that, you also get Bubble Wrap !

No box but hard cover book with DVD inside front cover. I think this is better than the usual plastic box with small booklet inside. In fact, having just measured it - the hard cover book is about 2x the size of the usual booklets.

Yes, I think it an improvement. Your Eyes May Vary

I already own the game. Is the manual available to purchase alone?

Ugh, I've moderated my no longer youthful enthusiasm.

No index.

I can't find how to de-select a unit as that red tail arrow keeps following me round.

And text is still centre justified. Is this a TOAW religious trait? It is certainly not a readable one.


I now remember an old article on game UI - and found it:

http://tleaves.com/2010/12/31/a-battle- ... attrition/


Still we press on. TOAW 3 forum is dead so I guess this is it from now until oblivion.


I've just checked and neither my TOAW3 manual or ACOW manual had indexes so I suppose a tradition has been maintained. My copy of Liddell Hart's History of the Second World War next to me - everybody has one don't they? - has 30 pages of index amounting to some 900 references.

Oh well. Tel Aviv, as they say

You should have a pdf version of the manual that you can search for keywords.

Yes, I use 'Alt-F' in the PDF Manual all the time

I now remember an old article on game UI

Thanks for posting the link, I enjoy information on UI's and such. Often I see complaints but no solutions or suggested solutions, and in those cases the observations are made worthless. The writer of this article does offer a few constructive suggestions, but still mostly complains that he doesn't like the cake but offers no suggestions to the cook on how to improve it.

I can't find how to de-select a unit

Because you can't [:D]

From the point of view of utility the manual is the worst I've seen in years. It's badly organised, incoherent and abstract. For example I wanted to learn something about HQ's or stacking, I searched the PDF for relevant words and there are no chapters dedicated to those key issues. For me it looks like the manual was written for people who already know TOAW III, so they can ready about some new things introduced in TOAW IV. The manual should be clearly organised. Just take any manual of board games by GMT or Compass. It should have the basic rules on the first 20-30 pages ( with the examples of play ). After reading this part the players should be able to start the game, move and attack. Then there should be the advanced rules and then designer notes and index. I haven't found ANY useful information in the current manual. From the other hand, I've learned a good bit from the tutorial document included in the tutorial scenario. The problem is, that I discovered this document by accident. Come on guys - manual is the key in this type of games. Not everyone knows TOAW III and not everyone has time to search the various forums.

I agree the book concept is great but its not unique to this game. They did the same for Field of Glory 2 so I assume that's standard now for their printed manuals?

As for the Operational Art of 4 manual I think its kind of crappy (sorry) in all honesty. You cannot read the Nato symbols because the font is so tiny and also the unit sizes shouldn't be split between 2 columns. Both should have had their own page even if it added a page or 3 to the printed manual. I go thru phase's with this series and often forget the unit sizes and Nato symbols so I have to reference the manual to refresh my memory. I actually use the Campaign Series manual for that but you shouldn't have to use a different games manual especially since not everyone would own both games. I have used the manual for those symbols since the first Talonsoft version so that's why I view this as a negative. Also there are book marks to everything useful except chapter 9. No book marks for supply, Air Superiority, Interdiction, Intelligence etc. That may just be the QA tester in me (been one for 20 years) that makes me notice a lot of little things like that. That certainly should have had a bug open and sent to PM for approval in my opinion. Then again it could have been and they didn't care. Who knows, but it does lower the overall quality of the product.

Sounds like it got rushed out the door maybe. I've always used the PDF version because I find it more convienent
especially for doing keyword searches.

LeeChard wrote: Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:19 am I already own the game. Is the manual available to purchase alone?

I have the same question. I would be interested to buy the printed manual and I would prefer not to have to buy the game a second time

And also, I'm wondering if the printed manual delivered with the physical shipment is up to date or if it's nowadays obsolete ?

nukkxx5058 wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:34 am I have the same question. I would be interested to buy the printed manual and I would prefer not to have to buy the game a second time

And also, I'm wondering if the printed manual delivered with the physical shipment is up to date or if it's nowadays obsolete ?

I can't say for sure, but I did ask Matrix a couple of years ago (ie, a couple of years after TOAW IV came out) if any hard copy manuals were available, and they said "no".

I doubt that the manual in the physical version has been updated; again AFAIK the manual has not received an official update, the only updates have been done by the community. And I'm not sure if "obsolete" would be the proper term, because it implies that TOAW IV has changed without the manual being updated; actually I think that one of the main problems with the manual is that parts of it have not been updated to reflect changes between TOAW III & IV.

So I'd better go to the shop and print the pdf in colour. Will cost some money but less than the $40 + post for the physical shipment (game+book) ...
I have an old ebook reader but it doesn't render well on it
And I really like to read that kind of stuff in my bed, far from my PC ...

Did you mention some manual update made by the community ?

I just posted that Manual Project here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 9&t=389531

FWIW, here is another version in Word I created:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 4#p4508484

nukkxx5058 wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:24 pm So I'd better go to the shop and print the pdf in colour. Will cost some money but less than the $40 + post for the physical shipment (game+book) ...
I have an old ebook reader but it doesn't render well on it
And I really like to read that kind of stuff in my bed, far from my PC ...

If have an iPad or similar tablet, that has generally become my favorite method of reading wargame manuals; depending on what app you use, you could read them in Word or pdf formats.

76mm wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:05 pm

nukkxx5058 wrote: Mon Oct 24, 2022 9:24 pm So I'd better go to the shop and print the pdf in colour. Will cost some money but less than the $40 + post for the physical shipment (game+book) ...
I have an old ebook reader but it doesn't render well on it
And I really like to read that kind of stuff in my bed, far from my PC ...

If have an iPad or similar tablet, that has generally become my favorite method of reading wargame manuals; depending on what app you use, you could read them in Word or pdf formats.

It's just that when I'm in bed I prefer not to have a radiating monitor, hence the printing. I also have this non-radiating Sony ebook reader (you can't read in the dark, need a lamp like a regular book to reda it). It's perfect for novels because the screen has the same texture as real paper but when the text contains images in it, like a game manual, it doesn't render very well the images and can become a pain to turn the pages. It somehow freezes. It's an ancient model of the first generation of ebook readers. Works with many files format pdf, epub, doc, txt, etc.

To others: thanks for the manual update links. Will have a look to what they add compared to the official manual.

Zovs wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:21 pm FWIW, here is another version in Word I created:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 4#p4508484

Sorry, I'm not sure to understand what do these manuals (yours and the one in the other link from sPzAbt653 above) bring, compared to the official one ?