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helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:09 pm
by gbem
helicopters too resistant to SAM fire... even older helicopters without flares or ECM like the KIOWA or an MI4 seem to be capable of doging and surviving multiple SAM hits... i find this odd... ive seen videos of light helicopters going down to a single stinger or strela shot...
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:42 pm
by varangy
The same can be said for airplanes. Multiple missile hits and AAA firing on them and they still fly onwards.
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:45 pm
by gbem
stalinium MI-4s and freedomium kiowas XD
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:20 pm
by Perturabo
There should be some distinction between aircraft equipped with counter-measures and ones not equipped with them.
Also, it would be cool if there were animations of flares and chaffs being fired.
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:34 pm
by kevinkins
I am finding enemy choppers are more vulnerable to a platoon of tank MG fire than SAMs. I remember one successful SAM hit. Switched to M163 vulcan last night and it worked better, although the range is shorter. Maybe choppers spend too much time out of LOS for SAM systems to acquire.
Kevin
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:59 pm
by Veitikka
In real life helicopters are better at using terrain features as cover.
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:16 pm
by gbem
Yeah but i doubt surviving 4x SA 13s can be done with kiowas
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:11 am
by blackcloud6
The SA-13 has about a 500m minimum range and minimum engagement angle of 40 degrees. The OH-58s might be able to stay below that and thus the missiles miss. Which is why they are called "missiles" and "hittles." [:D] [;)]
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:08 pm
by gerardo
Maybe you missed the original post but they were HIT (multiple times)
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:26 pm
by zacklaws
You can bring down an artillery barrage down on helicopters as well and despite only hovering 50 metres or 80 metres above the ground, it does not destroy them, damage them or even drive them away. As they can be game changers and you can hardly do anything about them, including aircraft, as I manually pick the units for each side, I rarely ever select aircraft or helicopters.
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:51 pm
by gerardo
Not good, must be a bug
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:52 pm
by kevinkins
The AI seems to bring their choppers in ASAP and can ruin your day at the outset to the battle. I put AA up with the lead units but have been consistently losing 3-5 of the point units. I have been planning for this initial loss in Advance type battles for a few days now. It might be my OOBs are too small and the chopper sections are having a disportionate affect on the battle.
Kevin
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:29 pm
by gbem
i just modded SAMS with 500 damage and they accurately oneshot helicopters now... its pretty neat
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:28 pm
by Eambar
In my current battle I've lost more armored vehicles to air (helos and fixed wing) than I have ground, including three vehicles in about 10 seconds to a MiG.
My AA has been ineffective against the fixed wing, including a battery of Gepards. I haven't had anything shoot at the helos so I don't know if they are resistant to AA or not. I'm still trying to work out how to determine the LoS to a helicopter (does it differ from the usual LOS shown by the LOS tool) and why some vehicles (eg Marder 1A1A2) can't/won't shoot at them. I was thinking maybe it was gun elevation?
Next time I'm stocking up big on AA assets.
Cheers
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:53 pm
by zacklaws
Next time I'm stocking up big on AA assets.
I think you will need more than just "stocking up Big". About an hour ago, I created a scenario on the North German map in the South East corner where there is a vast open space to put AA units to the test. I selected 20 AA units, Rapier, Javelin and blowpipe and manually selected a vast fleet of different aircraft and helicopters. Soon as an aircraft or helicopter appeared, it was mass volley fire at them and it was a rarity for one to be hit. I could not count how many missiles were fired in total, up to about 8 at a time just for one target, but only 4 helicopters were brought down overall. All aircraft just flew through the volley of missiles with impunity as if they was not there.
Eventually, I'll alter the database if I ever feel a need for aircraft and helicopters in a scenario.
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:06 am
by Eambar
ORIGINAL: zacklaws
Next time I'm stocking up big on AA assets.
I think you will need more than just "stocking up Big". About an hour ago, I created a scenario on the North German map in the South East corner where there is a vast open space to put AA units to the test. I selected 20 AA units, Rapier, Javelin and blowpipe and manually selected a vast fleet of different aircraft and helicopters. Soon as an aircraft or helicopter appeared, it was mass volley fire at them and it was a rarity for one to be hit. I could not count how many missiles were fired in total, up to about 8 at a time just for one target, but only 4 helicopters were brought down overall. All aircraft just flew through the volley of missiles with impunity as if they was not there.
Eventually, I'll alter the database if I ever feel a need for aircraft and helicopters in a scenario.
Thanks, I don't feel so bad now that my Gepards appear not to be able to hit the side of a barn. Maybe I'll give the AA a miss then, and use the points elsewhere (although I have used a Vulcan against infantry, got to love the sound of a minigun!)
Maybe we need some CMNAO type algorithims for the engagement of aircraft.
Cheers
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:18 am
by CapnDarwin
Is the issue hit versus miss or hit versus kill?
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:48 am
by gbem
Hit vs kill actually... the modded 500 damage SAMs efficiently kill helos
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:05 am
by Veitikka
ORIGINAL: zacklaws
You can bring down an artillery barrage down on helicopters as well and despite only hovering 50 metres or 80 metres above the ground, it does not destroy them, damage them or even drive them away.
zacklaws, I believe we've discussed this with you a few times on the Beta forums. Currently artillery doesn't damage aircraft. Works as designed.
To others: Are you aware that aircraft can abort their attack and escape via the closest map edge when they take fire, even if they're not damaged? This happens quite often.
RE: helicopters too resistant to SAM fire
Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:05 am
by Veitikka
I just did three attack runs on a default sized NTC map. A flight of MiG-27 vs a section of Roland SAMs. Every time one of the aircraft aborted its attack and escaped or was shot down.