Matrix Games Forums

Hi
shouldn't the range increment in hexes be similar to the map scale?
For example on a map with a 10km per hex scale, a unit with a range of 20km has currently a range of 3 hexes, but if the scale is 10km/hex why isn't the range 2 hexes?

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Hi
shouldn't the range increment in hexes be similar to the map scale?
For example on a map with a 10km per hex scale, a unit with a range of 20km has currently a range of 3 hexes, but if the scale is 10km/hex why isn't the range 2 hexes?

Two hexes (20km) between the units.

The range given in hexes is surely not the amount of (empty)hexes between the units.

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
The range given in hexes is surely not the amount of (empty)hexes between the units.

+1 I always understood the range as the number of hexes to the target's hex. ???

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

The range given in hexes is surely not the amount of (empty)hexes between the units.

That's exactly what it is. The front lines must be assumed to be at the forward edges of the hexes by the game. Assuming the units are positioned in the exact center of the hexes would obviously be presumptuous.

When I say between I mean between, obviously you count the target hex with and then it isn't just the hexes between the unit & the attacking unit. So a range of 3 hexes means the target unit can be as far away as 3 hexes not including the hex the attacking unit is in.

Anyhow why is a range of 20km 3 hexes and not 2? 10km is 1 hex, 2 hexes are 20km, so why has a unit with a range of 20km a range of 3 hexes and not 2?

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

When I say between I mean between, obviously you count the target hex with and then it isn't just the hexes between the unit & the attacking unit. So a range of 3 hexes means the target unit can be as far away as 3 hexes not including the hex the attacking unit is in.

Anyhow why is a range of 20km 3 hexes and not 2? 10km is 1 hex, 2 hexes are 20km, so why has a unit with a range of 20km a range of 3 hexes and not 2?

No. It is not "obvious" that you count the target hex. The units can be anywhere in the hex. The game must assume the minimum. It doesn't count the target hex.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

The range given in hexes is surely not the amount of (empty)hexes between the units.

That's exactly what it is. The front lines must be assumed to be at the forward edges of the hexes by the game. Assuming the units are positioned in the exact center of the hexes would obviously be presumptuous.

[&:]

Bob, your post make less and less sense when I compare it to the game.
My game(not sure if yours is different) has hexagonal range rings that are drawn along the center of hexes and a 3 hex range is draw along the 3rd hex center so the game obviously includes that 3rd hexes aka the target hex, it does not exclude the target hex.
If you want to nitpick here, 1/2 hex from the center of the attacking units hex + 2 hexes between attacking & target hex + 1/2 hex to the center of the target hex, makes 3 hexes.
That is 3 hexes or 30km for a unit with 20km range.

PS Or what Lobster posted, picture says it better than words.

5km per hex

Well with 12km that seem what it should be. But what range do you get when having equipment with a range of 15km, I guess 4 but I don't know why when the range is 15km what equals 3 hexes and not 4.

It seems to me that on a map scale of 10km/hex only less that the actual hex scale will keep the range where it should be. So 2 hexes would mean tha range can only be up to 19km and not 20km, what makes no sense to me.

It looks to me like the game rounds up. So 12km is same as 15km. 17km is same as 20km.

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

The range given in hexes is surely not the amount of (empty)hexes between the units.

That's exactly what it is. The front lines must be assumed to be at the forward edges of the hexes by the game. Assuming the units are positioned in the exact center of the hexes would obviously be presumptuous.

[&:]

The unit icons are an abstraction. Real unit locations can be anywhere in the hex.

The game does not count the target hex in the ranges. But, because of the abstraction, it adds one to the range - for display purposes.

Ok, Guys. Sounds a bit like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Or rivers on or through hexes? Oh, wait, we have already settled that.

Some where these arbitrary things have to be settled - arbitrarily. Norm did that. Moving on...

Yeah, but it doesn't exactly present itself as being proper, as seen below. Personally, if the situation pictured below [or anything similar] bothered me, I would go into the editor and make the subject guns' range = 29km instead of 30km. Issue averted and no coding time required.

It is much easier these days to edit equipment since the Equipment Editor was placed in the Editor. It gives us another file to manage but that is offset because things are so much easier.

EDIT: Maybe it's not obvious, but the 30km range guns [in the blue square] can target the enemy unit [the blue unit with the target cross on it] that is definitely over 30km's away by most people's eyesight.

EDIT: Maybe it's not obvious, but the 30km range guns [in the blue square] can target the enemy unit [the blue unit with the target cross on it] that is definitely over 30km's away by most people's eyesight.

I agree, that is counter-intuitive.

Cheers

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

EDIT: Maybe it's not obvious, but the 30km range guns [in the blue square] can target the enemy unit [the blue unit with the target cross on it] that is definitely over 30km's away by most people's eyesight.

Not if the art unit is on the NW hexside and the target is on the SE hexside.

(And imagine if there was a front line between the two units - that's just the deployment you would expect them to be in.)

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Assuming the units are positioned in the exact center of the hexes would obviously be presumptuous.

ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay
Not if the art unit is on the NW hexside and the target is on the SE hexside.

But surely it is just as presumptuous to make these assumptions? Seems like if you have to make a presumption it would be better to presume an average value than an extreme value (both units precisely on hexsides)?

When you start pretending a unit is in a particular place in a hex then you start plunging into the world of craziness. Center of the hex to center of the hex eliminates all of the pretend craziness. But like Steve said, more programming and with a little crew the bugs are escaping. But I think people really need to informed of this little nugget. There are an insane number of things like this that should be in the manual or at the very least an addendum.

So I posted this in another thread but want to make sure this makes sense and seems right:

Okay, I think I got it figured out with the help of both Larry and BigDuke and the actual settings. So this is the deal for range band colors:

This is the in game defaults for range bands with regards to Air/AA/Naval and what they mean:



For this particular scenario for this Air Unit, this is what the colors mean:



I think that ground is pretty straight forward per the manual (but it seems to be missing for Air/AA/Naval), i.e., white, red and black for ground support.