Cargo planes in SPWAW

Steel Thunder · Post by **Steel Thunder** » Tue Nov 14, 2000 2:26 pm

Hello

When I played "Heroes of the Motherland" -campaign I noticed that russian cargo planes have speed of 4. I takes 9 turns to get paratroopers to their target!

Then I do some research and noticed that all cargo planes in SPWAW have speed of 4. That is quite silly because infantry have speed of 10 and tanks have speed of 20-40.

I think that planes have to be MUCH faster than now.

Also I noticed that tanks fire to my planes with every weapon they have, not only AA-weapons. That makes me wonder that are cargo planes really planes in SPWAW or some kind of vehicles!!?

Is this an OOB bug or feature in the game?

Steel Thunder

[This message has been edited by Steel Thunder (edited November 14, 2000).]

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Tue Nov 14, 2000 4:51 pm

Huh???!!!! They are supposed to be 'plotted' like artillery, and come in on certain turns, don't see how you are manually moving them, did the class get changed in your oob somehow?? That's not how they are to be used!! Mine come in like an airstrike, and drop little parachutes in a string, like they are supposed too.

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Mike Amos
Meine Ehre Heisst Treue

Steel Thunder · Post by **Steel Thunder** » Tue Nov 14, 2000 5:15 pm

I also was suprised when I was able to move them. My oobs are edited but I only edited tanks not cargo planes.

Think this is maybe bug in the "Heroes of the Motherland" campaign, have to do tests and check my oobs.

Steel Thunder

David F. Wall · Post by **David F. Wall** » Tue Nov 14, 2000 5:38 pm

Ah, but you can use the cargo planes the other way, too. See Wild Bill's scenario (can't remember the title) with the Germans attacking a Norwegian airfiled.

DFW

Charles22 · Post by **Charles22** » Tue Nov 14, 2000 7:00 pm

I know just what he's talking about. I had a two KV1 flanking manuever around the south, and to my surprise spotted these grounded cargo planes. I decided to attack them and could actually fire on them with the main gun and mgs of one tank, while the other, for some reason or another, wouldn't fire it's main gun, though both tabks were in perfect health and hadn't fired a round before that.

The planes would make a small move, and I would be able to take pot-shots at them again. Oh, how I so badly wanted to destroy them, but the enemy conceded before I could get too close, and the infantry never disembarked.

Ballan · Post by **Ballan** » Tue Nov 14, 2000 9:35 pm

If you dont pre plan the para drops and gliders in the setup phase the aircraft revert to the vehicle type units you mentioned. Use these units the way they are supposed to be used, in the set up planning stage and they provide a useful and interesting addition dimension to the game

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Nov 15, 2000 12:42 am

I just tried the scenario, Steel Thunder, and they flew fine for me. They came in on turns 2 and 4, flew across the map and dropped their paras. I did not fly them at all.

That is how it should play. Which version of SPWAW do you have or had when you tried this? Again, it worked fine for me.

WB

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Wed Nov 15, 2000 12:45 am

When I do use planes the other way, as David has mentioned, I change their move factor so you can move them the distance they can fly. In this particular scenario I wanted them to land so I did not set them us as paratrooper units to be dropped, but infantry units. The planes then had to land to disgorge their passengers.

But in the Ruza Battle of Heroes of the Motherland, they are set up to fly, drop troops and continue off the map. And they just did that when I tested it.

WB

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

halstein · Post by **halstein** » Wed Nov 15, 2000 12:51 am

I have played around with the planes, and found that cargo-planes, can both be plotet for para-drops, or flown around like any other viechle.

I know the Germans actually landed planes here in Norway. On Fornebu (the then airport of Oslo) they were quite suprised when they were fierd upon, as they had been told, they came to Norway to "protect" us.

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Halstein

john g · Post by **john g** » Wed Nov 15, 2000 1:02 am

Originally posted by halstein:
I have played around with the planes, and found that cargo-planes, can both be plotet for para-drops, or flown around like any other viechle.

I know the Germans actually landed planes here in Norway. On Fornebu (the then airport of Oslo) they were quite suprised when they were fierd upon, as they had been told, they came to Norway to "protect" us.

The airfield that was taken by the ME110 pilots was supposed to have be taken by a first group of paras who turned back due to bad weather. The second group who were suppose to fly in and land had to do so with the pilots and gunners of the ME110s using their rear gun as an improvised mg team to suppress the defenders. Sometimes it is surprising just how well the Germans did, the war is full of "by the skin of their teeth" battles that could have gone either way.
thanks, John.

Steel Thunder · Post by **Steel Thunder** » Wed Nov 15, 2000 1:19 pm

Wild Bill:

My version is 4.4. I checked my oobs and they are allright. I played couple of battles with paratroopers and they worked as they should: planes came and paratroopers jumped near target hexes.

So something odd happened when I play that scenario in Heroes campaign. I don't have saves left so I can't try again. Hope that doesn't happened again.

Steel Thunder

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sat Nov 18, 2000 8:01 am

I used the cargo planes like the helicopters
in SP2 and 3. You have to do this in the scenario editor. I changed their movement to
move farther (50), and then had them come in
at turn 3 as reinforcements. Also they were
pre-loaded. When they came in on turn 3,I just flew them in like cargo planes coming
into an airfield.

BruceAZ_MatrixForum · Post by **BruceAZ_MatrixForum** » Sat Nov 18, 2000 8:21 am

I think you forgot to set them up initially as they move like airplanes and drop the paras when you predetermine the hex during set-up.

Originally posted by Steel Thunder:
Hello

When I played "Heroes of the Motherland" -campaign I noticed that russian cargo planes have speed of 4. I takes 9 turns to get paratroopers to their target!

Then I do some research and noticed that all cargo planes in SPWAW have speed of 4. That is quite silly because infantry have speed of 10 and tanks have speed of 20-40.

I think that planes have to be MUCH faster than now.

Also I noticed that tanks fire to my planes with every weapon they have, not only AA-weapons. That makes me wonder that are cargo planes really planes in SPWAW or some kind of vehicles!!?

Is this an OOB bug or feature in the game?

Steel Thunder

[This message has been edited by Steel Thunder (edited November 14, 2000).]

rexmonday · Post by **rexmonday** » Sun Nov 19, 2000 6:18 am

I sent a few flanking units down towards the south in one of the Heroes of the Motherland campaigns, and I also ran into the planes moving at speed 4. I seem to have had much the same experience as Charles22. They were reported as being loaded.

Belaja smert · Post by **Belaja smert** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 9:25 am

Originally posted by Charles22:
I know just what he's talking about. I had a two KV1 flanking manuever around the south, and to my surprise spotted these grounded cargo planes. I decided to attack them and could actually fire on them with the main gun and mgs of one tank, while the other, for some reason or another, wouldn't fire it's main gun, though both tabks were in perfect health and hadn't fired a round before that.

The planes would make a small move, and I would be able to take pot-shots at them again. Oh, how I so badly wanted to destroy them, but the enemy conceded before I could get too close, and the infantry never disembarked.

Same thing happened to me! Oh how much fun it would have been if my T-34s would have had enough time to beat the crap out of those grounded birds...

Belaja smert

Steel Thunder · Post by **Steel Thunder** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 12:03 pm

Originally posted by BruceAZ:
I think you forgot to set them up initially as they move like airplanes and drop the paras when you predetermine the hex during set-up.

Yeah, I may forgotted that.

But that doesn't explain that in the last battle (9 I guess) of Heroes Gerrys have cargo planes and they did the same as my planes. They moved like vehicles, four hexes per turn and never reached their dropping zones before game ends. And that happened also to my friend when he played same campaign.

Steel Thunder

[This message has been edited by Steel Thunder (edited November 20, 2000).]

BA Evans · Post by **BA Evans** » Mon Nov 20, 2000 9:52 pm

Did you set up the cargo planes like you do for pre-bombardment artillery? During set-up you need to use the little parachute button. This is similar to the bombardment buttone (bomb button).

BA Evans

Steel Thunder · Post by **Steel Thunder** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 12:50 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BA Evans:
Did you set up the cargo planes like you do for pre-bombardment artillery

No I didn't, and I know that is why my planes did what they did. But as I said that doesn't explain why AI cargo planes acts like vehicles in the last battle of that campaign.

Steel Thunder

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Tue Nov 21, 2000 5:51 pm

Okay ST. This is one I will look into. I did not encounter this problem in my play, but I will see if it happens by playing it again.

WB

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Steel Thunder · Post by **Steel Thunder** » Wed Nov 22, 2000 11:36 am

WB: Except that bug Heroes is a good campaign! And not very easy if you don't buy many t-34s. My core force was mainly t-26, bt-7 and t-28 tanks. Those gerrys captured t-34s and kv-1s were really a suprise!

I will go next to Utah beach. I think that I will have quite a challenge with that campaign.

Steel Thunder

[This message has been edited by Steel Thunder (edited November 22, 2000).]