Matrix Games Forums

In discussions with Hellen_Slith about the ability for users to see the passwords for the challenges in the PBEM++ system, I started wondering about what the "Password" checkbox in the Challenges page means. There's nothing in the manual about this checkbox.

I've always assumed this was for protecting the challenge so that two players who know each other can agree to a password to accept the challenge to avoid someone else jumping between?

I actually tried to accept a challenge and it asked me for a password. I didn't want to dig out the actual password even though I could have, so I entered a new password - assuming it would then fail to allow me to accept. But it still accepted the challenge and let me start the game. I would have thought this would not be possible, and that I'd need to enter the CORRECT password made by the poster to accept the challenge?

In the end it turned out the challenge was made in an older version and I could not actually open it properly. I got the incompatible version error after saving and trying to open again. Apologies to jmlima, I think it was yours [&o]

ORIGINAL: Shadrach
... Apologies to jmlima, I think it was yours [&o]

I was wondering what the f&^% had happened to that game. PBEM++ should be renamed PBEM--

I've use the PBEM++ system on several other games (FOGII, SJ, P&SC, BA2), so the problem is with TOAW4's implementation of the PBEM++ protocol.

I've never played TOAW with PBEM++ but can confirm that it works well with all the other games I've used it with (WitE, FOG2, other?).

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess what I'm asking is, if it wasn't clear enough, the following:

Does the password checkbox mean either:
1. The challenge is protected and needs a password to accept it.
or
2. The creator of the challenge has entered a password and you need to as well when starting it.

I think it is supposed to be like #1, the creator of the challenge entered a password, and you need to know it to accept the challenge

But that is not clear to creators of challenges (I don't think) b/c I think some folks are confusing that password w/ the routine of creating a password to just open your move like in regular PBEM ... does that make sense?

I shudder to think how many new players are confusing that routine, thinking that they are creating an "open" challenge and are just pass-wording their MOVES, instead of actually creating passwords that hinder others from accepting what otherwise might be an "open" challenge ...

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith

I think it is supposed to be like #1, the creator of the challenge entered a password, and you need to know it to accept the challenge

But that is not clear to creators of challenges (I don't think) b/c I think some folks are confusing that password w/ the routine of creating a password to just open your move like in regular PBEM ... does that make sense?

I shudder to think how many new players are confusing that routine, thinking that they are creating an "open" challenge and are just pass-wording their MOVES, instead of actually creating passwords that hinder others from accepting what otherwise might be an "open" challenge ...

Yes, that's what I've thought too. But then why would it allow me to accept a "passworded" challenge after giving me a "Enter password" dialog where I could just fill in whatever I wanted, and then let me start the turn?

It doesn't make sense - I thought the whole point of the PBEM++ system was to ensure that no-one but the player of the current turn could actually open it. Hence no need for the "regular" PBEM password, as the user has already authenticated in the system itself.

But why would the system let me enter anything in the password and still let me accept it?

EDIT: Let us test something, in a couple mins I will create a throw-away challenge. Don't examine the file we know about, just enter anything for a password, and see if the system accepts.

Sure, give me an half hour or so to get to my TOAW computer (on my laptop right now)

FWIW, I also had tried just accepting like you did w/ Jman, but it did not work for me back then.

Ok, heading up to my TOAW den now, will report results in a few minutes.

No challenge found, saw your move in the other, and I disbanded a lot to allow you free movement / get on the beach in that one. I also set all German to interdiction, to see how that might play out w/ these versions.

Will check again in a few for the other challenge re: password stuff?

Strange, it should be there.



Maybe some delay.

Will check it again, I'll give it another beer to refresh will report in a few more minutes.

PS (edit): I have to climb the stairs to the TOAW rookery, am currently in smoke shack, drinking beer and partaking, so it may be a few minutes Let me know how the interdiction strikes (if any) occur in the other ...

PPS: okay, heading back to TOAW rookery. Will reboot if I still don't see the challenge, will report in a few more minutes....

Found challenge, tried various "throwaway" p words, tried blank, could not open.

Well done!

PS: in our other, the Normandy/Rommel, I disbanded lots of coastal artillery / other units, but set all German air to "interdiction" to see how that might play for you, as a test.

As for the other: no dice for me, could not crack just messing around w/ it, I tried various, but it would have had to look at json to start that game for me, but did not.

Wow, OK thanks for the clarification.

Could you try the same please?
I could try with the already existing challenge open but I don't really want to step on someone's toes any more...

I assume you are still on .21 right? As we were testing different versions? Surprised you could open our scen if different version.

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

Wow, OK thanks for the clarification.

Could you try the same please?
I could try with the already existing challenge open but I don't really want to step on someone's toes any more...

I assume you are still on .21 right? As we were testing different versions? Surprised you could open our scen if different version.

Yes, I am still on .21 .... Win7 machine ... thus my interest in testing Normandy/Rommel w/ you.

Not sure what you mean by trying again the same ... but will look at it in a few. Shall I go ahead and open that challenge you posted, using J to get the password?

But yes, I am curious about effects b/w differing versions .... how they play against each other. I suspect, that the person w/ the older version (that is, me) will suffer the interdiction effects, but the person w/ the newer version (that is, you) will have the benefit of the newer rules.

Not sure. If that is the case, then the person w/ the older version may have an advantage, if both versions can play against each other. But then, thinking about it, the person w/ older version will not be able to incur those strikes....thus putting them at a DISadvantage, if they expect interdiction help. What a logic problem! Thinking more about it, I think the older version might have a disadvantage in such a case. Not sure. Still testing!!

Ok, will go to rookery again, see what we can see. Report in a few.

Just create new challenge. Same scene, and I will try first to enter "any" password. Then if that doesn't work I will fish yours out of the file and start it.
And you can show me how seaborne invasions are done [:'(]

Got it, will start another challenge w/ a new p word. Will make easy, is Solomon's last name again (all lower case).

As far as seaborne invasions in Rommel...Brits must first pound German coastal artillery and take them out ... also using SAS airborne (the coastal arty for Germans are really weak, they fall easily) ... and then make the seaborne invasion w/ US engineers leading the way to get on the beach.

I will start the game as Allies, that way I can show you how the Allies can make that invasion happen. In meantime, please move Allies on your side in the other, to test German interdiction?

Few minutes before I can post the other ... have to climb stairs, and these medicinal bursitis cigarettes are starting to take a toll on me LoL

Two new challenges posted, both Normandy/Rommel ... Solomon ______ is p word for both.

In other, I did not move a lot, but did see Allied interdict at end of move.
How is German interdict going on your end?

I only moved a bit, just throwing that game away to test interdict and .21 vis-a-vis .40 versions

Right OK. Things seem to work as expected, I'm denied with the wrong password. Not sure what happened when I accidentally accepted a challenge and entered a bogus password and was still let in. Now it gives "Bad Password" which is correct.

I was able to start your scene as well. First I chose the one that said "German Army" as I wanted to try the German side but I was dropped into Allied turn 1.
Then I opened the one with "Allied Army" and it was sent to you first. So I guess the Side column means what side the challenge creator has chosen, not what side I (the challenger) will be playing. Always confusing...

Oh and to be honest, I don't think I'm the right person to check interdiction. I usually overlook these things when I play (yes total newbie still...)

ORIGINAL: Shadrach

... the Side column means what side the challenge creator has chosen, not what side I (the challenger) will be playing. Always confusing...

Yes, that is correct, it shows which side the CREATOR has chosen to play. It is indeed confusing.

Alas, I have no power to be able to convince TPTB how confusing all this is this for PBEM "Plus Plus" for TOAW, nor any way to suggest what (to me) would be easy fixes ... and yet, we struggle on.

YMMV!!

Yeah... The manual states:

Challenges screen
There are four headings:
Issued – date the challenge was issued.
Game Name – scenario to be played.
Challenger – who issued the challenge.
Side – the side that will be played by the
Challenger.

Accept screen
There are four headings:
Issued – date the challenge was issued.
Game Name – scenario to be played.
Challenger – who issued the challenge.
Side – the side that will be played by the acceptor.

So that's just very confusing. And also WRONG - as that's not what happens as far as I can tell.