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re-embarking troops
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 12:08 pm
by Kursk1943
Situation: I did a successful amphibious landing and the enemy was annihilated during the first combat.
It takes a painful long time to disembark all troops, however (several days).
So the best thing to do would be to immediately stop to disembark and reembark the landed troops.
But when I try I only get the message that there is not enough space to reembark, obviously because there are still some elements on the ships (inspite of having had enough space to transport the very same troops to the landing site...).
So up to now I had to wait very reluctantly until all troops of one TF had disembarked and then reembarked them.
My question is: is there any trick to reembark without having to complete disembarking first? [&:]
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:02 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Kursk1943
Situation: I did a successful amphibious landing and the enemy was annihilated during the first combat.
It takes a painful long time to disembark all troops, however (several days).
So the best thing to do would be to immediately stop to disembark and reembark the landed troops.
But when I try I only get the message that there is not enough space to reembark, obviously because there are still some elements on the ships (inspite of having had enough space to transport the very same troops to the landing site...).
So up to now I had to wait very reluctantly until all troops of one TF had disembarked and then reembarked them.
My question is: is there any trick to reembark without having to complete disembarking first? [&:]
If there is any load already on a ship, starting to embark troops is a no-go. Take your troops currently on the ships to a large base and come back with the same or different ships to load the ones already ashore.
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:04 pm
by jwolf
No magic trick to do this as far as I know. Sometimes I stop the unloading and send the transports back to a more major base to unload the remaining parts. In the meantime I send fresh ships to the new base to pick up the guys waiting there.
In many cases you want to bring in support units -- construction and air/naval support, so it often works well to send them in, and after they are unloaded they can load up your combat units and bring them back to whatever major hub you use. Ideally you have these support units already loaded and ready to go in as soon as the new base is secure.
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:02 pm
by rustysi
TBH, a proper amphibious TF should take no longer than two days to unload. That being said, having taken the base on day one may be causing you some problems. Like having unloading crawl because the port is badly damaged. Having lots of engineers could help to alleviate this problem, but may take too much time as well. Flying in/landing a naval HQ could help with the offloading as well. I say could, because it won't if the port is originally SPS(0).
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 5:32 am
by Kursk1943
Thank you guys for the responses. It's a confirmation for me what I've done and that I don't miss any trick.
Rustysi, it takes a lot more than two days to unload. I'm in March 1942, doing Ironman nasty and retook Coal Harbour on Vancouver Island, port level 1, damage 100%, APAs still far into future. I had to get along with the transports at hand including some liners, which are really painfully slow to unload...[8|][8|][8|]
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:03 am
by traskott
I had had the same trouble. It's a PITA. Use DC-2/DC-3s and pbys to lift mobile devices and individual small xAKLs TFs to remove non flyable troops. More fast than using a convoy of amphibious transmarines or such, believe me.
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:43 am
by Kursk1943
ORIGINAL: traskott
I had had the same trouble. It's a PITA. Use DC-2/DC-3s and pbys to lift mobile devices and individual small xAKLs TFs to remove non flyable troops. More fast than using a convoy of amphibious transmarines or such, believe me.
Okay. I'll give it a try! [:)]
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 10:45 am
by Alfred
Kursk1943,
The amphibious unloading rate is higher for enemy owned beach than for the same beach owned by yourself.
Alfred
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:14 pm
by jwolf
ORIGINAL: Alfred
Kursk1943,
The amphibious unloading rate is higher for enemy owned beach than for the same beach owned by yourself.
Alfred
In detail, you get 4 unloading phases at enemy owned beach, but only 2 at your own territory. I understand what this rule is, and what is says, but I've never understood why. What is the rationale for this?
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:57 pm
by Professor Chaos
Not sure if there's a simple answer to this, but the low amphibious unloading rate in friendly beaches prompts a question: Is it ever faster to use amphibious transport to unload at a friendly base, versus regular transport?
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:05 pm
by fcooke
I think it is faster to use phibs at small bases - even if they are your own. If the docks are tiny/destroyed, the boats can get across the beach faster.....
And I would say that unless you are truly facing the end of the world, liners should not be used in phib assaults.
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:29 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: fcooke
I think it is faster to use phibs at small bases - even if they are your own. If the docks are tiny/destroyed, the boats can get across the beach faster.....
And I would say that unless you are truly facing the end of the world, liners should not be used in phib assaults.
You can use xAPs, just use lots of them so there are not a lot of troops to unload from each one. Load the xAPs separately and set them to load "Troops only" (i.e. minimal supply) so that once the troops are ashore the xAPs can retire. They tend to be too large for small port facilities anyway.
For areas with a lot of target islands like the Gilberts/Marshalls/Solomons, I have a host of small xAPs of 500/750 capacity. These are created from Dutch and British 1750 ton capacity xAKLs. (some of this size do not covert, but a lot do). The other advantage to fast unloading is that if one gets torpedoed, you don't lose a whole bunch of troops or gear.
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:40 am
by HansBolter
ORIGINAL: Professor Chaos
Not sure if there's a simple answer to this, but the low amphibious unloading rate in friendly beaches prompts a question: Is it ever faster to use amphibious transport to unload at a friendly base, versus regular transport?
Yes, if the port size is one. Yes, if the port size is two. No if the port size is three or larger.
Amphib is the only way to unload large radars at ports with docks too small to allow them to unload, but it still will take 5-7 days to unload the radar. This makes it pretty much a general rule that you don't try to deploy radar sets to ports of size 1 or 2. If you send an air base force to those locals by transport TF, the TF will sit at the port FOREVER, never succeeding in unloading the radar. You can still use this method to deploy air base forces to small ports, but you have to remember to send the TF back to a larger port to unload the radar leaving you with a fractured ground unit.
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:02 pm
by rustysi
You can use xAPs,
Never.
These vessels unload at an extremely slow rate for an amphibious assault. Check 6.3.3.3.2.1 p128.
For an amphibious invasion you need proper assault ships, and then unloading may be done in two days. Heck I do it as Japan even with AK's and a few LSD's. Of course I'm talking after the 'Bonus' time ends. Any Japanese player can do it during the 'Bonus' time.
xAP are only good for moving troops around rear areas after the Japanese bonus expires.
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:30 am
by CaptBeefheart
I use xAPs for amphib invasions all the time in '42 and early '43 (on the Allied side). There's not much choice beyond a few APs. The trick is having a low unit density on each xAP or xAK.
I recently did some experimenting with landing radars at a newly taken base. Once I took the base and built the port to Level 1 (from 0) I was able to unload the radar from an amphib TF, even without naval support present (which surprised me, actually).
Regarding the original post, one thing that can alleviate that problem is having amphib TFs that only contain supplies. Once the supplies are unloaded, that's all the more capacity you have to re-embark your troops.
One final note: Years ago someone on this forum said that for ports Level 4 and up, transport TFs are faster to unload, while amphib TFs are better when unloading at Level 3 or lower ports. I haven't tested it, but that rule of thumb has worked well for me.
Cheers,
CB
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:57 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart
I use xAPs for amphib invasions all the time in '42 and early '43 (on the Allied side). There's not much choice beyond a few APs. The trick is having a low unit density on each xAP or xAK.
I recently did some experimenting with landing radars at a newly taken base. Once I took the base and built the port to Level 1 (from 0) I was able to unload the radar from an amphib TF, even without naval support present (which surprised me, actually).
Regarding the original post, one thing that can alleviate that problem is having amphib TFs that only contain supplies. Once the supplies are unloaded, that's all the more capacity you have to re-embark your troops.
One final note: Years ago someone on this forum said that for ports Level 4 and up, transport TFs are faster to unload, while amphib TFs are better when unloading at Level 3 or lower ports. I haven't tested it, but that rule of thumb has worked well for me.
Cheers,
CB
If the base just captured has a nearly undamaged port, I will unload the light stuff amphibiously and then dock the amphib ships to unload heavy stuff like tanks, engineering vehicles and larger artillery pieces. I don't like losing these in the water just because someone didn't tie the sling rope properly during amphib unloading!
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:53 am
by Ian R
The allies have sufficient excess ships to send an empty amphib TF (or maybe one with a only 1 turn load of supply) comprised of xAP and xAK with any atoll invasion.
They can start loading even while the assault TF is still unloading. This will usually be enough to break the back of the problem.
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:46 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Ian R
The allies have sufficient excess ships to send an empty amphib TF (or maybe one with a only 1 turn load of supply) comprised of xAP and xAK with any atoll invasion.
They can start loading even while the assault TF is still unloading. This will usually be enough to break the back of the problem.
Your first statement is not true during the first six months or so of the game. Just trying to supply the far-flung island bases takes up the shipping. Losses and indirect routing (which adds to the transit times) reduce what can be brought forward. There are also some AA upgrades that are prudent to do.
And the APs which can unload at 2X that of the xAPs are mostly too precious to risk in invasions because they will become APAs in March or June of 1943, and unload even more quickly (4X, I think).
RE: re-embarking troops
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:10 am
by Kursk1943
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Ian R
The allies have sufficient excess ships to send an empty amphib TF (or maybe one with a only 1 turn load of supply) comprised of xAP and xAK with any atoll invasion.
They can start loading even while the assault TF is still unloading. This will usually be enough to break the back of the problem.
Your first statement is not true during the first six months or so of the game. Just trying to supply the far-flung island bases takes up the shipping. Losses and indirect routing (which adds to the transit times) reduce what can be brought forward. There are also some AA upgrades that are prudent to do.
And the APs which can unload at 2X that of the xAPs are mostly too precious to risk in invasions because they will become APAs in March or June of 1943, and unload even more quickly (4X, I think).
1+!
A perfect description of the problems I faced when requoncering Coal Harbour in March 1942!