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OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:27 pm
by tolsdorff
Not to detract from the deeds of this man, but aren't frigates and destroyers named after war heroes, amongst others?
Halsey, Spruance, Yorktown or Lexington, to name but a few, just seem bit more sensible for such a capital ship.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:33 pm
by RangerJoe
Yes, frigates and destroyers among other ships. I don't know why they named it after a mess steward other than he is credited for shooting down a plane when the US was officially in peacetime.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:49 am
by Ian R
As an independent observer, it seems the move to naming USN carriers after people flowed from the Forrestal & the JFK, and the decision to shift the state and city names to the growing fleets of SSBNs and SSNs. The old carrier names (battles and historical ships, and a few long dead people) went to the Tico cruisers and large amphibious assault ships. At the same time the USN was trying, in spite of political interference, to stick with its naming conventions, hence the Spruance, OH Perry, and Kidd classes.
That left the new carriers to be given deceased peoples' names, including presidents', instead of the SSBNs which used to get those (there was a George Washington class SSBN named Robert E. Lee, as an outlier example). The Carl S Vinson fitted with the Forrestal precedent, and of the Fleet Admirals, King, Halsey and Spruance were already taken when Nimitz was launched.
Doris Miller doesn't fit any of that.
If I was in charge, I wouldn't use live people's names, but then I'm not in charge.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 1:56 am
by RangerJoe
Doris Miller died during the war if I remember correctly. I don't know if he ever had any official Ma Deuce training.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:36 am
by JeffroK
Died with the sinking of the Liscombe Bay off Tarawa.
Only training was as a cook.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:26 am
by Kursk1943
The name "Doris Miller" for a CV sounds funny for German ears, because Doris is a typical girl's name in Germany...[:D]
No offense of the female part of mankind intended! [;)]
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 10:05 am
by Trugrit
It is the second ship named after him:
https://www.history.navy.mil/content/hi ... 091-i.html
Sailors sometimes give nicknames to the ships they serve on.
I served on two amphibious ships.
The USS Charleston which we called “The Chuck” and
The USS Barnstable County which we called “The Barn”
The sailors may call her “The Dorie” but probably just the Miller again.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:04 am
by Kursk1943
If I remember correctly sailors nicknamed CV Intrepid "Evil I", because of some bad accidents on her and CVL Cowpens was nicknamed "Mighty Moo".
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 2:52 pm
by BBfanboy
Didn't know about the Cowpens nickname! [:D]
Sounds like a play on the USS Missouri's "Mighty Mo".
I can't understand why no major warship has been named after the captain of USS Johnston (of the Battle of Samar fame), Ernest E. Evans.
IIRC he was sometimes referred to as Cherokee Evans because he had some native blood in his pedigree. As a Medal of Honor winner and a truly courageous leader, naming a major ship after him would honor him and give a nod to the native people who served in the USN.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:12 pm
by RangerJoe
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Didn't know about the Cowpens nickname! [:D]
Sounds like a play on the USS Missouri's "Mighty Mo".
I can't understand why no major warship has been named after the captain of USS Johnston (of the Battle of Samar fame), Ernest E. Evans.
IIRC he was sometimes referred to as Cherokee Evans because he had some native blood in his pedigree. As a Medal of Honor winner and a truly courageous leader, naming a major ship after him would honor him and give a nod to the native people who served in the USN.
Half Cherokee from his mother, part Creek with some European on his father's side. I have a book about him, Halsey, Kurita and Ugaki. I enjoyed the book.
edited:
Sea of Thunder: Four Commanders and the Last Great Naval Campaign 1941-1945
by Evan Thomas
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/376 ... of_Thunder
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:38 pm
by BBfanboy
That books sounds interesting. Will look for it.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:54 pm
by RangerJoe
Evans was embarrassed when he was on the DD Alden in the Java Sea when they ran away. He attacked at Leyte Gulf before he had orders to do so.
The book also takes at least some of the blame away from Halsey for leaving that straight unguarded.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 8:59 pm
by Canoerebel
A few weeks ago, a writer sent me a note about his submission (50 words or less) as to the most heroic naval action in American history. His nomination was the Monitor. My immediate thought was USN destroyers in the Battle of Samah.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:52 pm
by geofflambert
I wouldn't put Monitor v Virginia in the top ten or twenty. Both ships were virtually invincible to anything short of ramming.
Miller supposedly was trained to feed ammo to the light AA guns so was somewhat familiar with their operation. Using him makes sense as a large percentage of the crews are usually brown and could use the inspiration.
I think Canoerebel was referring to the Battle off Samar (not Samah) and that definitely would count with me.
They could sure name a ship after Ernest E. Evans.
Half Cherokee and 1/4 Creek, to boot.
Go Chiefs!
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:22 am
by Ian R
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
Doris Miller died during the war if I remember correctly. I don't know if he ever had any official Ma Deuce training.
My comment was directed at some more recently commissioned carriers.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:29 am
by Canoerebel
From my experience, most Georgians (and most southerners) are part Cherokee, and nearly everybody has an ancestor that served in the 3rd Georgia Reserves (fated to serve as the guards at Camp Sumter, the POW stockade at Andersonville).
Yes, I meant the Battle of Samar. Thanks, Geoff, for catching that.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:55 am
by Andrea G
If I am not mistaken Miller has been the first afro-american to be awarded the Navy Cross; guess that's the reason for christening CVN-81 with his name.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:53 am
by Mark VII
ORIGINAL: geofflambert
I think Canoerebel was referring to the Battle off Samar (not Samah) and that definitely would count with me.
They could sure name a ship after Ernest E. Evans.
Half Cherokee and 1/4 Creek, to boot.
Go Chiefs!
They did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Evans_(DE-1023)
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:52 pm
by Chickenboy
Ditto others' comments about the DDs and DEs off of Samar for valor. However, I was thinking of Robert Copeland, Captain of the Samuel B. Roberts (DE-413). His message to the crew before engaging is haunting, but should stiffen the spine of anyone to have ever served: "This is a fight against overwhelming odds from which survival could not be expected. We will do what damage we can." No greater valor.
Copeland had the USS Copeland (FFG-25) named after him in 1980.
RE: OT : CVN-81 Doris Miller
Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2020 5:37 pm
by LargeSlowTarget
ORIGINAL: Ian R
As an independent observer, it seems the move to naming USN carriers after people flowed from the Forrestal & the JFK, and the decision to shift the state and city names to the growing fleets of SSBNs and SSNs. The old carrier names (battles and historical ships, and a few long dead people) went to the Tico cruisers and large amphibious assault ships. At the same time the USN was trying, in spite of political interference, to stick with its naming conventions, hence the Spruance, OH Perry, and Kidd classes.
That left the new carriers to be given deceased peoples' names, including presidents', instead of the SSBNs which used to get those (there was a George Washington class SSBN named Robert E. Lee, as an outlier example). The Carl S Vinson fitted with the Forrestal precedent, and of the Fleet Admirals, King, Halsey and Spruance were already taken when Nimitz was launched.
Doris Miller doesn't fit any of that.
If I was in charge, I wouldn't use live people's names, but then I'm not in charge.
Nothing wrong with the name Doris Miller. However, rumour has it that the next pair of CVNs will be named after those other two war heroes of Pearl Harbor fame - Danny Walker and Rafe McCawley
