Level 4 forts and no retreat?

[Cavalry Corp]

Dear friends,

I am playing drum on the Danube scenario actually apart from one issue with the isolation of German units in Bulgaria??? Some of them reform or appear in Zara and become instantly isolated and cannot leave because they are HQ regiments otherwise the game is pretty good.

My opponent though has asked me the following question to which I do not also know the answer

Here’s a mystery perhaps you can help me solve. In the North I attacked a 4 level fort and won at 5-to-1 odds. However, your units did not retreat. I thought perhaps units in a 4-level fort don’t have to retreat, but I word-searched the new unofficial WITE manual and couldn’t find it. Do you know the answer to why your forces did not retreat after losing at combat?

[Cavalry Corp]

On checking the game turn I only saw a combat at 2.23 to 1 and a reduced the fort from 4.06. What kind of attack would fulsome automatic retreat from a fort
.

[eskuche]

Is this version 1.12.03? If so the retreat rules have changed. See changelog #19:
Defending units will not retreat from battle that ended with odds 2.00 to 1 or better for the attacker if the fort in hex will be at level 4 or better. For heavy urban, mountain terrain or working port level 10+ add 2 to fort level, for light urban, rough terrain or working port level 5+ add 1 to fort level.

[morvael]

Defending units will not retreat from battle that ended with odds 2.00 to 1 or better for the attacker if the fort in hex will be at level 4 or better. For heavy urban or working port level 12+ add 2 to fort level, for light urban or working port level 6+ add 1 to fort level.

[morvael]

However higher CV ratio helps to remove forts faster.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: eskuche

Is this version 1.12.03? If so the retreat rules have changed. See changelog #19:

And 1.12.01 #3 altered this a bit.

[carlhebert]

I am Cavalry Corps' Russian opponent in "Drama on the Danube" and I am the one struggling with a level 4 fortification. I suspected that the fact there was no retreat after successful combat (9 to 1) meant the rules had changed for level 4 forts, but I couldn't find it. Thank you all for the clarification. I will just have to hammer away until the level slips below the 4 threshold. I was beginning to think that the Hungarian units had reached a state of fanatic defense never before seen.

[xhoel]

Engineer units (Sappers for the Soviets) and artillery (especially heavy) help with reducing fortifications. They will make it easier for you to take the hex.

[thedoctorking]

That's what those big old 203mm howitzers and 280mm mortars are for. And for the Axis, the even bigger German siege guns.

[Cavalry Corp]

Interesting replies and thank you. Please note these level 4 forts are in the mountains

[eskuche]

Check the discord. Someone is having an issue breaking a level 4 fort with just a fort zone. Is this intentional as well?

[Cavalry Corp]

I had the same thought - I was wondering then if any unit can hold a level 4 fort - even a fort zone itself?

[xhoel]

It should have been changed, at least there was talk about it being changed. Doesn't seem to be the case unfortunately...

[Cavalry Corp]

Morvael

9-1 did almost nothing something like 4.1 to 4.03?

So it could be that units in level 4 forts unreduced would fight to the last man ?

But once ( and if) they become level 3 then they retreat as usual? I assume.

[morvael]

Weaker forces will hold the fort for a shorter period of time. Can't see a big problem. 4.03 - another push and it will be gone. Especially that 0.02 at level 4 is many times stronger than 0.02 at level 3.

[juv95hrn]

Are the terrain bonuses exclusive or additive? Ie. Does Leningrad have +2 for either heav urban or port +12? Or does it have +4 total for both?

EDIT:

As far as I can tell Tallinn and Oranienbaum lost a bonus level for increasing port level requirement from 5 to 6. (they both have level 5 ports).

[carlhebert]

In my latest attack on the offending level 4 fortification in Drama on the Danube, I achieved odds of 29.48 to 1. I finally reduced the fortification level from 4.02 to 3.78. I expected a retreat, at last. However, the stalwart defenders did not retreat, leaving me to wonder what in the rules I am missing. Or is this a bug and once a fort is established at level 4 there is no retreat for the entire scenario? Can anyone shed light on this? Thank you.

[morvael]

ORIGINAL: carlhebert

In my latest attack on the offending level 4 fortification in Drama on the Danube, I achieved odds of 29.48 to 1. I finally reduced the fortification level from 4.02 to 3.78. I expected a retreat, at last. However, the stalwart defenders did not retreat, leaving me to wonder what in the rules I am missing. Or is this a bug and once a fort is established at level 4 there is no retreat for the entire scenario? Can anyone shed light on this? Thank you.

I guess fort level wasn't reduced below 4.00 during combat itself, only post-combat bonus reduction from final CV ratio caused reduction below 4.00. It should fall on next turn!

[carlhebert]

Well, let's see what happens. If the fort falls, the defenders will have a special place in the Gulag for slowing my offensive to a virtual stop. Thanks Morvael for explaining things.

[morvael]

One really needs heavy artillery and engineers amassed to capture such forts quickly.