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Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:52 pm
by Q-Ball
What happens when you resurrect a unit that is a component of an already-built larger unit? I'll cite a specific example.
55th Cav Regt is a component of the IJA 55th Inf Division. 55 Cav was destroyed; after that I recombined all the other components to re-build the 55 Infantry Division, which is now full strength, including the Cavalry.
55 Cav Regt, though, still shows in my Ground Units Destroyed screen, and is eligible for rebuild. What happens if I build it?
Will it still be associated with the 55th Division "Parent", and because it's on the map will that cause 55th Div to be unable to Divide in 3 parts?
Or will it now basically be an independent unit?
Just curious how this works, thanks!
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:13 pm
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
What happens when you resurrect a unit that is a component of an already-built larger unit? I'll cite a specific example.
55th Cav Regt is a component of the IJA 55th Inf Division. 55 Cav was destroyed; after that I recombined all the other components to re-build the 55 Infantry Division, which is now full strength, including the Cavalry.
55 Cav Regt, though, still shows in my Ground Units Destroyed screen, and is eligible for rebuild. What happens if I build it?
Will it still be associated with the 55th Division "Parent", and because it's on the map will that cause 55th Div to be unable to Divide in 3 parts?
Or will it now basically be an independent unit?
Just curious how this works, thanks!
Don't know. Start an experimental series of turns, try buying it out and bring it to the location of the division and see what happens.
Note that when you combine sub units into a Division, the sub units disappear and you get A/B/C sub-units when you divide the Division, so I suspect the Regiment will just exist independently thereafter.
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:20 pm
by Lowpe
The 55th div shouldn't be full strength. It looks like it is when you examine it, but its toe is missing the 55th cav portion or should be. I don't think you will be able to put the 55th cav back into it ever.
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:25 pm
by Q-Ball
ORIGINAL: Lowpe
The 55th div shouldn't be full strength. It looks like it is when you examine it, but its toe is missing the 55th cav portion or should be. I don't think you will be able to put the 55th cav back into it ever.
Nope, the 55th Division DOES have Cav Squads....it's there.
Now I am curious, so I went ahead and built the unit....it will appear in Tokyo in 24 turns. 55 Division is already split in /3, but it shows now as part of the unit organization! Once it's on the map, not sure if I will be able to recombine the Division or not. We'll see!
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:11 pm
by GetAssista
I would expect those parts of divisions not show on the destroyed tab at all, cause there is no reason to revive them. A/B/C regiments do not show there, right? Looks like a database error
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:00 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: GetAssista
I would expect those parts of divisions not show on the destroyed tab at all, cause there is no reason to revive them. A/B/C regiments do not show there, right? Looks like a database error
The cavalry regiment was destroyed and on the list before he formed the division and filled it out. So the sub-unit exists independently.
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:55 am
by Alfred
The link to the parent is destroyed. This is covered in the patch notes and clarification by michaelm75au.
Alfred
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2020 12:56 pm
by Q-Ball
ORIGINAL: Alfred
The link to the parent is destroyed. This is covered in the patch notes and clarification by michaelm75au.
Alfred
Is there a display issue then I wonder? Here is the Unit Organization screen for one of the A/B/C units, showing the Cav Regt. It appears to be linked to the parent. I'll probably learn more once that Cav unit comes back in Tokyo.
This unit organization looks like a violation of a law of WITP Physics! Can't have A/B/C and other elements around by definition.
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:07 pm
by Q-Ball
OK, so I waited until the 55th Cavalry was on the map, to see what happens. Cliff Notes: DO NOT DO THIS AT HOME!!!!
First, you can see that the Cav unit still identifies with it's full-strength parent in the field. I re-combined the 3 parts of 55th Division in the field, and I end up with a) a full-strength 55th Division, including all the CAV squads, and b) The 55th Cav Regt in Tokyo. So far so good!
But, what happens if I now click the "Rebuild Unit" button on the Cav unit? Will I have 2 55th Divisions?
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:11 pm
by Q-Ball
After I rebuild 55th infantry, I still have the option to "Rebuild" the 55th Division in Tokyo, via the Cav Unit. What happens if I press that? Do I get 2 55th Divisions?
NOPE! The full-strength 55th Division in the Field EVAPORATES, and the only 55th Division on the map now is the depleted unit in Tokyo.
I didn't save after doing all this, so I'm just going to disband 55th Cav to avoid anything crazy like that in the future.
But moral of the story: DO NOT rebuild destroyed component units of a Division, if you have already rebuilt the division
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:39 pm
by GetAssista
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
NOPE! The full-strength 55th Division in the Field EVAPORATES, and the only 55th Division on the map now is the full-strength unit in Tokyo.
Woah, that's wild.
Revivability of a component is definitely a database error like I first suggested. Even w/o rebuilding a division and all associated shenanigans you get an ability to have more land units than supposed in the scenario. Yes, it is not free since you get squads/devices from the pools, but this ability is not WAD. In all the other cases you are never able to have more units than set in the scenario
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 2:55 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: GetAssista
ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
NOPE! The full-strength 55th Division in the Field EVAPORATES, and the only 55th Division on the map now is the full-strength unit in Tokyo.
Woah, that's wild.
Revivability of a component is definitely a database error like I first suggested. Even w/o rebuilding a division and all associated shenanigans you get an ability to have more land units than supposed in the scenario. Yes, it is not free since you get squads/devices from the pools, but this ability is not WAD. In all the other cases you are never able to have more units than set in the scenario
The fix would be that the AI does not allow forming the division until the destroyed unit is bought out from the destroyed list and put in the same place as the rest of the division. But the buy-out system is a new feature added well after the game release and there was no opportunity to test all the wrinkles it created.
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:43 am
by GetAssista
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
The fix would be that the AI does not allow forming the division until the destroyed unit is bought out from the destroyed list and put in the same place as the rest of the division. But the buy-out system is a new feature added well after the game release and there was no opportunity to test all the wrinkles it created.
No, the fix is already in place - you cannot revive A/B/C regiments, and a division is successfully combined from all that's left if some are destroyed. Same with the named fragments.
RE: Rebuilding a Component Unit
Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:05 am
by BBfanboy
ORIGINAL: GetAssista
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
The fix would be that the AI does not allow forming the division until the destroyed unit is bought out from the destroyed list and put in the same place as the rest of the division. But the buy-out system is a new feature added well after the game release and there was no opportunity to test all the wrinkles it created.
No, the fix is already in place - you cannot revive A/B/C regiments, and a division is successfully combined from all that's left if some are destroyed. Same with the named fragments.
Well he did manage to have the revived regiment while he already had the division, and presumably could have filled it out and used it independently of the division it belongs with - giving him an extra regiment. What he could NOT do was expand that regiment into divisions size. That was when things started to go "poof".
Thus I posted that he should not have been able to buy out that regiment because the division was already formed.