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Hexes a 100km wide
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:20 am
by Sieppo
Just a quick thought. I think hexes should be 100km wide. It's just a bit unrealistic for troops to drive max 2000km to get some supplies. Think how much gas they burn just to bring some back etc. Also post-apocalyptic cities taking 4000 square kilometres where then a couple of thousand warriors fight it out and don't damage anything without artillery. Then the next closest farm or mine or whatever outside the city hex would be 100-150km away. I mean even 100km is not better but it would be an improvement. I understand Vic wants to simulate the true circumference of the planet but still.. I think it could be managed somehow without making the maps humongous. You get the point.
RE: Hexes a 100km wide
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:29 am
by Ekaton
Agreed, it leads to very odd frontages - in my present world, there are 1.5 mil survivors post-apocalypse, and somehow there are 2500+ km frontages, manned by two brigades and a few independent battalions.
RE: Hexes a 100km wide
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:36 am
by Sieppo
Yeah it's a hard choice. You make one thing very realistic and it makes the other one a bit unrealistic.
RE: Hexes a 100km wide
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:52 am
by Jdane
I think Vic made a pretty good case in the manual about the design compromises in Shadow Empire (5.17). I recommend reading it if one hasn't yet, it's quite interesting in my opinion, and I appreciated the openness and the insight it gives into the game design process and the hard choices that come with it.
Don't get me wrong, I totally see Sieppo's point. It's just that I manage not to think too hard about it and take the stated scales as approximations, and mix in some abstraction. As you pointed out, looking from a logistics perspective, the hex is too big, but from a planetary perspective it's about right.
It reminds be of somebody stating they would have preferred if populations were generally lower and that armies could get huge for a post-apocalyptic somewhat backwards planet. But on the other hand, if you consider an early game battle of encirclement in which six small battalions of 1 000 men are attacking from the six corners of a (ooh math...) 600 km big in diagonal region, the world doesn't seem overpopulated so much. [:D]
I get though that people can like numbers to add up and the setting make solid sense under all counts. Apologies for the rambling, I was just pointing out to that chapter in the manual in case people didn't know about it.
RE: Hexes a 100km wide
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:17 am
by Sieppo
ORIGINAL: Jdane
I think Vic made a pretty good case in the manual about the design compromises in Shadow Empire (5.17). I recommend reading it if one hasn't yet, it's quite interesting in my opinion, and I appreciated the openness and the insight it gives into the game design process and the hard choices that come with it.
Don't get me wrong, I totally see Sieppo's point. It's just that I manage not to think too hard about it and take the stated scales as approximations, and mix in some abstraction. As you pointed out, looking from a logistics perspective, the hex is too big, but from a planetary perspective it's about right.
It reminds be of somebody stating they would have preferred if populations were generally lower and that armies could get huge for a post-apocalyptic somewhat backwards planet. But on the other hand, if you consider an early game battle of encirclement in which six small battalions of 1 000 men are attacking from the six corners of a (ooh math...) 600 km big in diagonal region, the world doesn't seem overpopulated so much. [:D]
I get though that people can like numbers to add up and the setting make solid sense under all counts. Apologies for the rambling, I was just pointing out to that chapter in the manual in case people didn't know about it.
Yes. Actually the only REAL problem I have is with the supply issue. Its just silly in post apocalyptic world filled with apparent scarcity.
RE: Hexes a 100km wide
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:10 am
by Vhalor
May have been best to just abstract distance entirely. 1 Hex = 1 Hex, the end. [8D]
RE: Hexes a 100km wide
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:27 am
by zgrssd
ORIGINAL: Sieppo
Just a quick thought. I think hexes should be 100km wide. It's just a bit unrealistic for troops to drive max 2000km to get some supplies.
If they can go 10 hexes, they are using roads. And at 100 km/h, it is just 20 hours. A acceptable timespan for supply runs.
RE: Hexes a 100km wide
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:42 am
by GodwinW
Just never translate it into real world distances in your head and you're fine.
RE: Hexes a 100km wide
Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:24 am
by 76mm
I really dislike the weak ZoCs with 200km hexes