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"Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:00 am
by ydmatrix2
Rolled the Cabinet Retreat strat with critical success, informs me that relations of all cabinet members should improve with +8%.
Actual improvements are 1 relation point, and there also no tooltip explaining that relation change in Reports => Overviews => Personel Overview.
1.03beta5
Relations screenshot after the strat: (other screenshots in next comments)
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:01 am
by ydmatrix2
Relations before the strat:
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:02 am
by ydmatrix2
The result of the "Cabinet Retreat" skill roll:
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:14 am
by Vic
It uses an INV % ...
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:16 am
by Vic
Meaning that 8% improvement actually is 8 points for rel0... but for rel 80 it is only (100-80)*0.08 = 2 points.
best wishes,
Vic
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:22 am
by ydmatrix2
Meaning that 8% improvement actually is 8 points for rel0... but for rel 80 it is only (100-80)*0.08 = 2 points.
That is..
* confusing
* not stated anywhere in the strat or the outcome description
* not a design I personally like very much. +8% is a ridicilously high and unlikely roll (I just happened to have a cap 4 interiour council director). It's a pretty hard roll anyway which is usually likely to be lower even when it succeeds. It's going to be useless when trying to keep high relations with directors, and of pretty little use even for saving relations with a relation 50 director.
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:10 pm
by zgrssd
ORIGINAL: ydmatrix2
Meaning that 8% improvement actually is 8 points for rel0... but for rel 80 it is only (100-80)*0.08 = 2 points.
That is..
* confusing
* not stated anywhere in the strat or the outcome description
* not a design I personally like very much. +8% is a ridicilously high and unlikely roll (I just happened to have a cap 4 interiour council director). It's a pretty hard roll anyway which is usually likely to be lower even when it succeeds. It's going to be useless when trying to keep high relations with directors, and of pretty little use even for saving relations with a relation 50 director.
It is that way with all other things that affect relations. Or did you never wonder why some people got a change of 10 and some a change of 1 from a Decision?
I agree on the Documentation not being ideal, but it is not confusing in the least.
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:40 pm
by ydmatrix2
ORIGINAL: zgrssd
It is that way with all other things that affect relations.
I don't think it is, although you're right there probably more strats where this is the case. I'm guessing you're right for the % increase types of strats, not absolute numbers.
Just did a quick check for a couple of cases:
* Medal of Merit gives exactly +25 relation, as stated on the card (regardless of leader current relation)
* A bonus (100credit, 2d10 relation increase) did give +9 relation increase on a 74 rel character
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:47 pm
by zgrssd
ORIGINAL: ydmatrix2
ORIGINAL: zgrssd
It is that way with all other things that affect relations.
I don't think it is, although you're right there probably more strats where this is the case. I'm guessing you're right for the % increase types of strats, not absolute numbers.
Just did a quick check for a couple of cases:
* Medal of Merit gives exactly +25 relation, as stated on the card (regardless of leader current relation)
* A bonus (100credit, 2d10 relation increase) did give +9 relation increase on a 74 rel character
I am actually talking about all relationship changes, especially in Event Decisions.
The relationship change for picking a specific option is based on:
- the Profile change it brings
- the leaders profile (as far as it relates to these specific values)
- with less decrease/more increase for low values
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:52 pm
by Malevolence
Agreed; players don't know about hidden variables and blackbox conversions. If it only gives an additional 2 points, don't report a percentage change, instead report the added two points. The report needs to match the variables presented to player with which they are familiar.
Keep units of measure consistent in the interface, even if behind the scenes calculations are performed.
I get the idea, but it feels like a bait and switch.
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:55 pm
by ydmatrix2
I am actually talking about all relationship changes, especially in Event Decisions.
For event decision, we're given a preview of the actual expected relation changes, without the explanation of the exact calculation, just the general affinity (so that's useful to know).
For strats - as I mentioned, the calculation seems to be different for different type of strats.
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:57 pm
by zgrssd
ORIGINAL: Malevolence
Agreed; players don't know about hidden variables and blackbox conversions. If it only gives an additional 2 points, don't report a percentage change, instead report the added two points. The report needs to match the variables presented to player with which they are familiar.
There is the problem: It is only 2% for some people, not all people.
How much relation you gain or loose is modified based on how high the relation already is. That is how Leader Relation has worked since release. Since before release.
You may only do one roll, but how much they gain effectively is decided leader by leader.
So the best one could give you is maybe "up to 8%" or "by some amount".
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:01 pm
by Malevolence
I understand. I'm not trying to write the text myself.
If it were me, "Relation with each Cabinet member went up between X and Y points depending upon relations."
I think that reports exactly what you said, which was correct. However, it keeps units of measure consistent. It's also informative about the game's rules.
RE: "Cabinet Retreat" strat having incorrect effect 1.03beta5
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:49 pm
by GodwinW
ORIGINAL: Malevolence
Agreed; players don't know about hidden variables and blackbox conversions. If it only gives an additional 2 points, don't report a percentage change, instead report the added two points. The report needs to match the variables presented to player with which they are familiar.
Keep units of measure consistent in the interface, even if behind the scenes calculations are performed.
I get the idea, but it feels like a bait and switch.
Agree. Also on your other post about this issue in a different context.