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Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:54 am
by Tomn
So one of the things that kinda bugs me specifically is what happens when you take a city from a major regime - namely, the zone borders imploding, as they probably had been doing since you started advancing into the zone. You usually end up with your poor border zone suffering enormous administrative strain, while the zone of the newly conquered city is usually kind of a hot mess of barely functioning assets due to mass worker emigration so they can't take up their old assets immediately without worsening the worker situation. This is made doubly bad if the the AI had for whatever reason relied on a supercity with one single gigantic zone stretching from pole to pole, which means that you couldn't give them all their old assets without bogging them down with admin strain anyways (makes you wonder how the AI was managing - I don't think the AI bonus specifically includes dealing with admin strain, does it? Does the AI ever colonize?).
Is anyone else bothered by this? I mean, yeah, I could probably get by through aggressive use of zone rebordering and asset shutdowns but it's still kind of a tedious pain, especially if you conquered a massive new zone before getting to the city and have a lot of borders to redraw. Also gets kinda weird when the city in question was the regime's last city and you instantly lose all recon on their territory because now they don't have a zone to send spies TO.
RE: Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:16 am
by diamondspider
I usually have half a dozen commercial zone and several zoos saved up by then and so that, and making sure I have about 10 strong counters on the city for a while seems to make it pretty easy. If you don't do these things the, yes, it can be a royal pain.
RE: Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:17 am
by devoncop
ORIGINAL: Tomn
So one of the things that kinda bugs me specifically is what happens when you take a city from a major regime - namely, the zone borders imploding, as they probably had been doing since you started advancing into the zone. You usually end up with your poor border zone suffering enormous administrative strain, while the zone of the newly conquered city is usually kind of a hot mess of barely functioning assets due to mass worker emigration so they can't take up their old assets immediately without worsening the worker situation. This is made doubly bad if the the AI had for whatever reason relied on a supercity with one single gigantic zone stretching from pole to pole, which means that you couldn't give them all their old assets without bogging them down with admin strain anyways (makes you wonder how the AI was managing - I don't think the AI bonus specifically includes dealing with admin strain, does it? Does the AI ever colonize?).
Is anyone else bothered by this? I mean, yeah, I could probably get by through aggressive use of zone rebordering and asset shutdowns but it's still kind of a tedious pain, especially if you conquered a massive new zone before getting to the city and have a lot of borders to redraw. Also gets kinda weird when the city in question was the regime's last city and you instantly lose all recon on their territory because now they don't have a zone to send spies TO.
Not sure where you are from Tomn but I can guarantee that the productive capacity of any UK city on behalf of the new occupiers that had been militarily conquered by a foreign power would be derisory. It may be inconvenient but it is both realistic and well designed.
History also shows huge movements of refugee populations ahead of a city being conquered. Syria today exhibits the same trend.
You simply cannot expect to take over a fully productive city with a ready workforce.
RE: Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:43 am
by Tomn
ORIGINAL: devoncop
ORIGINAL: Tomn
So one of the things that kinda bugs me specifically is what happens when you take a city from a major regime - namely, the zone borders imploding, as they probably had been doing since you started advancing into the zone. You usually end up with your poor border zone suffering enormous administrative strain, while the zone of the newly conquered city is usually kind of a hot mess of barely functioning assets due to mass worker emigration so they can't take up their old assets immediately without worsening the worker situation. This is made doubly bad if the the AI had for whatever reason relied on a supercity with one single gigantic zone stretching from pole to pole, which means that you couldn't give them all their old assets without bogging them down with admin strain anyways (makes you wonder how the AI was managing - I don't think the AI bonus specifically includes dealing with admin strain, does it? Does the AI ever colonize?).
Is anyone else bothered by this? I mean, yeah, I could probably get by through aggressive use of zone rebordering and asset shutdowns but it's still kind of a tedious pain, especially if you conquered a massive new zone before getting to the city and have a lot of borders to redraw. Also gets kinda weird when the city in question was the regime's last city and you instantly lose all recon on their territory because now they don't have a zone to send spies TO.
Not sure where you are from Tomn but I can guarantee that the productive capacity of any UK city on behalf of the new occupiers that had been militarily conquered by a foreign power would be derisory. It may be inconvenient but it is both realistic and well designed.
History also shows huge movements of refugee populations ahead of a city being conquered. Syria today exhibits the same trend.
You simply cannot expect to take over a fully productive city with a ready workforce.
Oh, you misunderstand. I don't really mind the cities being less productive for a while, or needing to station a garrison there and maybe deal with the odd rebellion. Price of doing business.
What I DO mind is the bureaucratic tedium of rezoning vast swathes of conquered territory to adjust to new conquests because the zoning of the new conquests are a fraction of their former size (presumably to make assets not shut down completely in the face of a reduced workforce). It's an irritating bit of busywork when I've got a war to fight and populations to suppress.
Edit: The suffering of a conquered population is nothing to the carpal tunnel syndrome I get from signing documents, damnit!
RE: Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:57 pm
by Jdane
I would agree that having some sort of coarse setting for the zone border tool could end up being handy.
For instance, set the radius to six, click on the city, and then you'd have a better basis to work upon.
That would reduce the tedium somewhat. But I'm getting in feature suggestion territory here...
RE: Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:54 pm
by DTurtle
This works for taking over the cities of minor regimes. I don't see why it shouldn't work for cities of major regimes too.
I think you should report this as a bug.
RE: Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:50 pm
by Malevolence
Major Regimes don't surrender (for me at least). If you take a Major's city the whole zone does not capitulate. This is true even if the Major only controlled one zone.
This causes a mess of zone fungus as OP describes.
Up to the point you take the city, you have been pushing your zone boundaries with each occupied hex.
When you take the city, the game reorganizes the conquered zone by splitting it up. Depending on how you cut the pie to defeat the Major Regime this can cause multiple unknown zones to be generated. It also destroys any spies you had working against the Major Regime.
I don't think it's a bug by or in itself. I think it's a consequence of the game design.
There is no easy fix so long as unit movement and occupation changes the hex's zone.
RE: Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 8:38 pm
by EuchreJack
Hm, if a Major or Player is left with a zone(s) without any cities, can they build a new city? If so, then it all makes sense and they should build/establish a new city ASAP. Considering that a city is just a zone asset where the zone population live, it might even be a shift rather than a rebuild. Remaining loyal population re-establishes itself in the mine to the north, or whatever.
...but if not, then its a waste of time their not capitulating. The Major/Player should die, and the rest revert to either the conquer, a minor rebel faction, or non-aligned.
RE: Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:33 am
by mek42
How does the zone border drawing work? Once I've typed Z, exactly how do I move the border?
RE: Major Regime Border Gore
Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 9:40 am
by mek42
ORIGINAL: mek42
How does the zone border drawing work? Once I've typed Z, exactly how do I move the border?
One last read of the manual and randomly clicking and I figured it out.
First, be in an order mode other than z (I try to be in inspect mode whenever I'm not doing something). Then left click the zone you want to expand the border of. Then left click hexes outside of the border to get them to change.