Matrix Games Forums

A few experience with units upgrade:

1) SHQ will try to gather all obsolete units on next turn WITHOUT taking in mind ability to replenish it back. It leaded several times to 0 troops battalions for my recon buggies so they were disbanded on next turn automatically (and I could do nothing about it as they were quite far away from my roads).

Most idiotic that something similar is happening with infantry. Have no logic behind it and it was very unpleasant surprise for me - either I doing a ton of manual work or waste a lot of manpower and logistic & eating risks of having a half-filled regiments.

And please, I know that we have Low/Regular/High behind Obsolete. But default settings will recall even them and being forced to change unit settings for something so trivial as upgrade from one model to another... This is to be called bad UI.

2) You aren't able to replace warmachines that were already placed in SHQ. So you will either lose their experience or waste PP, logistic points and time to do a sequence raise formation > replace > disband.

3) Units disbanded in SHQ are returned as population in that zone, not as a recruits. WHAT. THE. HELL?! It's a common practice in real military to be retrained for a new model of tank/APC/etc.

P.S. I know it's already in a bug list but manpower consumption of trucks/APC is insane one. Combined with #3 and crazy migraion you're literally forcing me using cheats.

And bonus (different kind of issues): Are you seriously sure that "Okay" happiness leading riots? I'm building several cities now and as they starting with 0 QOL very soon worker happiness reach ~60. While game still state it with "Okay" tag I'm CONSTANTLY receiving minor riots (suppress / follow their demands or ignore) + similar "bad" events in my newly-founded cities. It's annoying like a hell - either events are triggered by mistake or your tool-tip is lying.

This sounds like feedback, not a bug report.

1. That is the job of Obsolete. I agree it is a bit extreme and could use some extra levels, but it is still your misstake to use it. And not un-use it after you realized the mistake.

"And please, I know that we have Low/Regular/High behind Obsolete. But default settings will recall even them and being forced to change unit settings for something so trivial as upgrade from one model to another... This is to be called bad UI."
This sentence makes no sense. Those settings are mutually exclusive.
Set old model to Low Quality. Set units to only tollerate low Quality units.
Upgrade or replace as nessesary.
Obsolete when there is (close to) no more units in the field.

Bonus: Worker Happiness causes Strikes. Population happyness causes Riots.

ORIGINAL: zgrssd

This sounds like feedback, not a bug report.

While AI happily disbanding my own units (#1) is indeed partially caused by my wrong understanding of "obsolete" (as for me obsolete =/= throw it in a bin ASAP), destroying my experienced units (#2) is definitely a bug (or fool-proof from obsolete versions of game as currently you're unable to replace model A with same model A, every other situation should work in SHQ perfectly).

Bonus point is a bug for me too - I'm receiving strikes VERY reliable around 60 worker happiness while tooltip still says it's "Ok". Something is clearly wrong here for me.
P.S. Thank you for fixing me - indeed I'm speaking about strikes bad event (and similar workers-one like wastes, fake pills and so on).

ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Set old model to Low Quality. Set units to only tollerate low Quality units.

You even don't need to do on default settings as it's fine to keep Low Quality models.

Problem that "Obsolete" mean more like "Out of use" or "Banned" AND used for infantry too. This is especially funny as we able to rearm infantry without them replacing them so there is almost zero sense to recall it back in SHQ (aside from a rare situation when you're trying to exchange "normal" infantry with a GR one).

And as for me it's still a bug / wrong UI design - I can REALLY screw myself by picking very neutral-looking option.

ORIGINAL: demiare

Problem that "Obsolete" mean more like "Out of use" or "Banned" AND used for infantry too. This is especially funny as we able to rearm infantry without them replacing them so there is almost zero sense to recall it back in SHQ (aside from a rare situation when you're trying to exchange "normal" infantry with a GR one).

Indeed. As designed, obsolete is the wrong word to use in this game's interface. The actual treatment is banned--but the models also uncomfortably continue to appear in player selections.

Changes have been suggested throughout the forum.

We need a category that implies, "don't ask me to use this in any way anymore, and phase the model out via normal attrition-- or I'll phase it out myself manually."

I can't think of a single instance where I would want a universal disband of a model---the current design. The logistic system is just too fragile to allow for such a significant loss in combat power.

The only place we should see such a classified model is in the MTG > Models spreadsheet view and then only via a toggled filter.

The automatic and unchangeable naming rules [:@] don't help this matter as well. I bet this has created a dependency under the hood.

The strong dependency is also evident by the fact a player can only the upgrade the latest model design, and not any non-obsolete model design. Other models of the same super-type are not actually considered current by the model upgrade interface.

For example, I make two tank versions based on the same chassis (structure score)--one designed for soft attack and another designed for hard attack. I don't mind upgrading each separately with model design, but I have to conduct an odd hukilau dance to achieve the same effect.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, in the real world, weapons development is about increasing specialization of existing capabilities and about developing brand new (disruptive) capabilities. Most game's focus on the new, disruptive, capabilities only and sprinkle in some bonuses for the existing capabilities (e.g. applied engineering tree in this game).

Long story made short, this issue is closely dependent to model development and replacements.

Point 2 will be implemented in beta6. Thanks for your feedback.

And yes point 3 shows a limit of the system. You will have to use REPLACE if you want to keep the XP of those troops. Disbanding is really likely releasing them from the military.


best wishes,
Vic