Matrix Games Forums

Playing the Spratly Spat LIVE scenario, I'm noticing the tomahawk cannot target fixed maritime platforms.
Shouldn't it be able to? If not, I'd like to understand why!

Thanks.

Because maritime targets move, and land ones do not! The modern variants of Tomahawk do not have seeker heads able to strike mobile targets

The Tomahawk has had many variants over the years and in the past the USN did have a variant for anti-shipping stikes. Like most long-range anti-ship cruise missiles this had an active radar seeker to provide terminal guidance in the last part of its mission. Simply put the radar would activate at a predetermined point, seek for a blip, perhaps apply some logic to eliminate chaff or small-targets and home in on that blip. Land attack variants use quite a different set of guidance methods, including terrain mapping radar, optial image comparison of the target and GPS.

Its worth studying the different capabilities and limitations of weapon guidance methods as these do have a big role to play in the performance of the weapon, especially torpedoes.

Apologies, I should have been clearer: I meant fixed maritime platforms. Here is the database entry:

Well,if its a moored oil rig in the real world I suspect you could strike it with a modern Tomahawk. But I suspect the game does not make the distinction between mobile and immobile maritime targets. Really something like an oil rig should be treated as both a surface and land target as it has the features of both and could be struck by weapons designed for both (an I/TARH guided sea skimmer like Harpoon will get a clear enough radar signal to lock on and a GPS guided JDAM or other land-attack munition could also hit it as its immobile).

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/3 ... inf-treaty

Anti-ship tomahawks might be back ... article from March but not much info since.

Logged for investigation.

0014123

Depending on the type of tomahawk it may not be able to navigate to the precision required for end-game engagement over water. Many versions of the Tomahawk use TERCOM navigation which relies on ground contours for navigation--which is not too handy over water. Being off by a few hundred metres is okay when crossing shore to start TERCOM navigation, but renders the weapon useless against an actual target at sea.

There is a new-ish weapon in the DB, the "BGM-109J Tomahawk Blk Va MST [Maritime Strike] -- 2023, Land-Launched, ASuW Capable" which as the name implies is launched from land and is capable against ships. It has a variety of seekers, including IR, ESM and active radar to help it distinguish its target against the ocean.

These other Tomahawks are also capable against surface targets in the DB:

RGM-109B Tomahawk TASM -- 1985-1991, ASM
UGM-109B Tomahawk TASM -- 1985-1991, VLS
UGM-109B Tomahawk TASM -- 1985-1991, TT
RGM-109I Tomahawk Blk IV MMT [Multi-Mission] -- 2015, ASuW Capable
UGM-109I Tomahawk Blk IV MMT [Multi-Mission] -- 2015, TT, ASuW Capable
UGM-109I Tomahawk Blk IV MMT [Multi-Mission] -- 2015, VLS, ASuW Capable

The point about GPS guided weapons is a good one and we'll look into whether the existing parameters should be changed to allow e.g. GPS guided bombs to hit stationary offshore platforms/rigs.

Are there any other guidance types that should be capable against offshore platforms that aren't?

ORIGINAL: BHughes

Because maritime targets move, and land ones do not! The modern variants of Tomahawk do not have seeker heads able to strike mobile targets

The Tomahawk has had many variants over the years and in the past the USN did have a variant for anti-shipping stikes. Like most long-range anti-ship cruise missiles this had an active radar seeker to provide terminal guidance in the last part of its mission. Simply put the radar would activate at a predetermined point, seek for a blip, perhaps apply some logic to eliminate chaff or small-targets and home in on that blip. Land attack variants use quite a different set of guidance methods, including terrain mapping radar, optial image comparison of the target and GPS.

Its worth studying the different capabilities and limitations of weapon guidance methods as these do have a big role to play in the performance of the weapon, especially torpedoes.

Actually, the TLAM Block IV has demonstrated an ability to hit moving maritime targets - it just requires third party real time targeting info rather than being fully autonomous like TASM (or the new MST) was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MtLRJw6AsY

Did this type oil rig get dropped from the most recent DB? Seems it should be there.

Kevin

#1869 - Platform [Class C, 50000t] (Commercial - 0) in v494?


I can see it.

Yes, just found it by filtering under type = ship.

Kevin

The point about GPS guided weapons is a good one and we'll look into whether the existing parameters should be changed to allow e.g. GPS guided bombs to hit stationary offshore platforms/rigs.

That would be welcome. +1

Relevant tidbit from v1.06.1328.13 – 12th January 2024
• NEW FEATURE: Water-surface facilities (supported only on v504+ DBs). Such facilities are
placed on the water surface (not on the sea bottom) and can be attacked with both land-attack
and anti-ship weapons. Examples of such facilities include bridges (both single-unit and multi-
segment), offshore platforms, piers etc.

I sent a db update request to update the old platforms, such as those mentioned on this topic.