Matrix Games Forums

Hi,

New player here.

I did all the picture/text/Interactive tutorials. Have now gone back to the tutorial videos on the main splash screen. These are hard work, but I'm up to 'Chapter 13 Production planning'. This one is pure evil slave brain torture after a glass of wine.
It starts off talking about oil resources and how you can save them rather then using them for build points etc. That threw me big time. Why would Germany sacrifice BP's at the outbreak of war? Realized after watching it again that this came after all the combat PHASES against Poland were finished. It's another PHASE (presumably before the start of a new turn). Germany only had to re-organize some air units and didn't need all those BP's to do it.
It's all these game phases that confuse me. There are so many. So my 1st question is...
Can I change how these oil points are treated in a future phase when they might be needed?
The second thing is about non-oil resources. At the start of the tutorial there are 3 of these that are idle for Germany. However, when the 3 oil resources are saved, the 3 non-oil resources stop being idle and are magically used for production, so Germany has the the same build points as it did before saving the oil.
So 2nd question is - Are non oil resources just a substitute for saved oil? What is the difference between oil and non-oil.
Tutorial 13 lasts an hour. I am only 10 mins in and had to stop because it doesn't explain the quirks of the game and is just confusing. I'm not complaining because I like the idea of detail in the game and look forward to playing it. However, tutorials are supposed to help new players but these don't help much at all. They need a major overhaul. Once I learn the game myself I am willing to help.

In the standard game, without the optional rules in play, there is no difference between oil and non-oil resources. So you are right that one should always maximize production. You need build points for your units and that's it.

However, the optional oil rule is used by most players and always in combination with saving oil. Why? Because it simulates the problems the Axis (and also the Allies sometimes in 1945) had to make sure the planes, tanks, trucks and ships have the necessary fuel to move again.

When playing with the oil rule, it becomes very important for both the Axis and the Allies to balance the use of oil in the present turn and make sure there is enough for future turns. It is wise to save oil, since the number of oil dependent units will rise during the game. The number of oil points on the map is simply not enough to reorganise units and have maximum production for the Allies at the end of the game. And the Italian fleet might also end up sitting in port with empty bunkers in 1940 if the Euroaxis didn't save oil from the start of the game, by burning the oil to build that other ARM instead... The Japanese need to be aware that the US will invoke an oil embargo during the game, so it should have enough saved to be able to capture the Netherlands East Indies oil fields, before the ships and planes have to stay on the ground.

Oil resources which arrive in a trade agreement also can't be used to refuel immediately. They have to be used in production or have to be saved (raw oil can't be put into a tank, it needs to be refined), so you can use it next turn for your planes, tanks or ships.
Saved oil can be used in production or as fuel for your units. They appear in the production planning screen if you want to burn them in the factories.

Using the oil rule means that you need to make sure the non-oil resources get to the factories for production, before you burn oil resources in them.

However, if this is too much for a new player, simply play a standard game without oil to get the feel of how the game plays. You don't have to dive in the deep end.

I agree that tutorial 13 is a very difficult one. That's also the reason why chapter 14 has been added. That one gives examples on production planning.

First of all, oil is an optional rule; you don't have to use it, but I highly recommend it. If you don't use it, oil resources are treated exactly as non-oil resources, and reorganization is free.

If you do use oil, there are two types of resources: Non-oil and oil.

Non-oil resources can be used for only one thing: This turn's production. If you don't use a non-oil resource this turn, that resource is wasted, just spilled on the ground. Of course, the resource will be produced again next turn, but this turn's is gone.

Oil resources can be used for three things: this turn's production, just like non-oil resources; reorganizing units; or, if you don't use an oil resource for either of those, it can be saved to be used on a future turn. Also, if you want, you can just spill it on the ground, if, for example, you own a trapped oil resource that you think the enemy is about to capture.

If you have a saved oil resource, you can again use it for production, reorganization, or save it for next turn.

I don't like oil, the game becomes an accountant game, always counting how much each unit with motors consumes.

And besides it detracts resources, that can be already short enough for some countries, like Italy but also UK for example.

Thanks for replying.

Finished chapter 13. It really wasn't much help and LASTS A F*****G HOUR!! Not much wiser about resources or convoys, except that it is v v complicated. Think I will skip oil/food rules on my first game.

One more chapter to go!

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

I don't like oil, the game becomes an accountant game, always counting how much each unit with motors consumes.

And besides it detracts resources, that can be already short enough for some countries, like Italy but also UK for example.

I like playing with oil. It really gives the game a better historical feeling IMHO. Especially since the accounting is done by the computer in MWIF, it has become a good rule to use. On the board one keeps counting and counting, that's for sure.

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

I don't like oil, the game becomes an accountant game, always counting how much each unit with motors consumes.

And besides it detracts resources, that can be already short enough for some countries, like Italy but also UK for example.

It was somewhat of a pain in the boardgame, but many aficionados had to have it to properly simulate WWII. In MWiF it is all automatic except maybe estimating how much you need to save when doing production.

I would rate oil as an almost essential rule. 9 out 10 on a scale where 5 is neutral and 10 is "Must have". If you use it, use synthetic oil, too. The Axis needs it.

The reason I think it is necessary is that it gives the feel of WW II. Also, without, there are just too many resources. One almost never runs short.

Italy for certain... but I've always found the UK to be swimming in oil.

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Italy for certain... but I've always found the UK to be swimming in oil.

I've seen the Wallies having shortages of oil in 1944-1945. Sure, it looks like the CW is swimming in oil in 1942, until the US comes in the game and from that time on, oil consume is going up and up and up...

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Italy for certain... but I've always found the UK to be swimming in oil.

AS far as it can move it without having conv sunk or paying double oil if it is in a different region.

Unless you miss some production, of course, just to pay for moves.

Plus, the UK has to do a huge amount of fleet moves, strat bombing moves , apart from the rest of the spenditure like the other countries.

Not to speak of the nigtmare in conv management if youy are using tankers (cant recall if compulsory if using oil)

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Italy for certain... but I've always found the UK to be swimming in oil.

AS far as it can move it without having conv sunk or paying double oil if it is in a different region.

Unless you miss some production, of course, just to pay for moves.

Plus, the UK has to do a huge amount of fleet moves, strat bombing moves , apart from the rest of the spenditure like the other countries.

Not to speak of the nigtmare in conv management if youy are using tankers (cant recall if compulsory if using oil)

Tankers is a different optional rule, which hasn't been coded at this time.

ORIGINAL: Centuur
Tankers is a different optional rule, which hasn't been coded at this time.

And it will be one of the last optional rules coded, because of the difficulty of coding it (along with everything else in Convoys in Flames).

Although not last. That will be Intelligence.

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I would rate oil as an almost essential rule. 9 out 10 on a scale where 5 is neutral and 10 is "Must have".

Just curious, do you have any optional rules that you put at 10? If so, which one(s)?

By the way, for me oil is a 10 (i.e., it's a must). But that's my preference. [8D]

I also have some on a scale of 1-10 that for me is 0! Two examples of those are construction engineers and unlimited breakdown. [:@]

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

ORIGINAL: Centuur
Tankers is a different optional rule, which hasn't been coded at this time.

And it will be one of the last optional rules coded, because of the difficulty of coding it (along with everything else in Convoys in Flames).

Although not last. That will be Intelligence.

Won't miss it. I have never played this game with Intelligence.

Me neither, but I'm a little slow .

ORIGINAL: craigbear

Me neither, but I'm a little slow .

I am not intelligent enough to use the intelligence rules.

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I would rate oil as an almost essential rule. 9 out 10 on a scale where 5 is neutral and 10 is "Must have".

Just curious, do you have any optional rules that you put at 10? If so, which one(s)?

By the way, for me oil is a 10 (i.e., it's a must). But that's my preference. [8D]

I also have some on a scale of 1-10 that for me is 0! Two examples of those are construction engineers and unlimited breakdown. [:@]

Yes, scrap units, saving build points, fractional odds and off-city reinforcement are all 10s. They all make the game easier to play.

Motorized movement rates is an 11 (there has to be one, right? [:)]). The sight of German panzer corps marching through the Pripyat is not one I ever want to see.

Yes, construction engineers and unlimited breakdown both get zeros.

I have tried but do not like it.

Why the hate on construction engineers?