Matrix Games Forums

I can provide independent evidence elsewhere that the TRACOM bug mentioned elsewhere (here, for example) appears to exists in the latest version (1.8.11.26b)



Number of pilots in TRACOM when this screenshot was taken was:
IJA - 151
IJN - 429 (!)

As can be seen, adding a substantial number of pilots to TRACOM leads to large increases to IJN pilot skills, allowing unnamed pilots to be drawn from the replacement pool with EXP much higher than they should have. Range I have observed from drawing unnamed pilots was from 67 EXP down to 48 EXP.

Interestingly, IJA pilots do not seem to be affected by this large increase. However, it is possible that this is a reflection of smaller numbers of IJA pilots on TRACOM duty.

While it takes a fairly substantial effort on the part of a player to amass this number of pilots in TRACOM, it does pose the potential to be game-breaking in that large numbers of pilots can be churned out with high EXP values, and potentially (if sufficient pilots are added to TRACOM) to create a positive feedback loop by enabling pilots to be drawn from the replacement pool with EXP greater than 81, and then immediately be sent back into the pool to provide a further boost.

This is not a surprise. The only aspect which hasn't been proven is whether the bug also affects the Allies. And yes, it affects IJA equally - GetAssista's post (the one you linked) has screenshots which prove that.

ORIGINAL: Kull
And yes, it affects IJA equally - GetAssista's post (the one you linked) has screenshots which prove that.

Umm, I think all of the screenshots there are about IJNAF affected. IJA sits near normal 35 xp in all of them. I'm swamped with work rn at the year end, but plan to do a clean experiment some time in the vacations for all the nations

ORIGINAL: Kull

This is not a surprise. The only aspect which hasn't been proven is whether the bug also affects the Allies. And yes, it affects IJA equally - GetAssista's post (the one you linked) has screenshots which prove that.

No evidence to suggest that IJA is impacted by this also as of yet. Both myself and GetAssista's post show's IJA EXP fairly close to the mark.

As I have said, could be that it is not affected, could be that there's just not a critical mass of TRACOM pilots in the IJA TRACOM programme.

Another thing that jumped out to me: there are hardly any IJN pilots in there, maybe the number of pilots has something to do with it.

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

ORIGINAL: Kull
And yes, it affects IJA equally - GetAssista's post (the one you linked) has screenshots which prove that.

Umm, I think all of the screenshots there are about IJNAF affected. IJA sits near normal 35 xp in all of them. I'm swamped with work rn at the year end, but plan to do a clean experiment some time in the vacations for all the nations

Yeah, the IJN numbers are more obvious, but even with the IJA we see that 100 pilots has edged the base-level experience to 36, which is one point higher than the supposed "cannot be exceeded under circumstances" maximum of 35 (see the graphic in my post, right below his).

So at least there we have an indication that the IJA is also affected. But yes, pumping a few hundred IJA pilots into TRACOM would confirm it, either way.

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Another thing that jumped out to me: there are hardly any IJN pilots in there, maybe the number of pilots has something to do with it.

Not likely - see the graphics in GetAssista's linked post. He has 1561 IJN pilots in October 1943 and the base experience level is even higher than mind_messing's

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Another thing that jumped out to me: there are hardly any IJN pilots in there, maybe the number of pilots has something to do with it.

Worth pointing out that this is roughly 12 months on from gutting the IJN replacement pool for to stack the resized groups.

Is it possible to get a save showing this?

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

Is it possible to get a save showing this?

Drop me a PM with an email address and we can discuss

Can I get a save? I just need to see what players are seeing. There should be limit on the number of 'instructors' being use to do the calculation, so I need to understand what is happening.

I have a few saves I will look at. There should be a cap on the number of 'instructors' being used. It isn't there as I don't think anyone expected players to load all their experienced pilots in Training Command in such volumes.
For the IJN, they didn't have many experienced pilots left after all the mid-war year losses in planes/pilots/carriers. Over weighting the Command I don't think was really expected.

Let me get my head around the current process, and what may be wrong or may need tweaking.

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

Can I get a save? I just need to see what players are seeing. There should be limit on the number of 'instructors' being use to do the calculation, so I need to understand what is happening.

Woah, woah, you are on the .exe again, what a treat on the NY Eve! I'll get you my TRACOM save too, see attachment

Also, a while back I compiled the few of the left reproducible bugs/inconsistencies in the last beta https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4923122. Feel free to check in and see if something catches your eye

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au
For the IJN, they didn't have many experienced pilots left after all the mid-war year losses in planes/pilots/carriers. Over weighting the Command I don't think was really expected.

Stacking Tracom is what JFBs would naturally do while waiting for better (armored) planes for their early war aces

Regards, GA

michaelm75au, are TRACOM effects relative to the number of pilots in replacemnt pool?

I just had 1 British pilot in TRACOM accelerate 19 pilots

The 'number' of pilots in TRACOM influences the speed of the monthly training cycle. Thus overloading it will speed up the overall training.
Even with one pilot there, it can 'speed' up the cycle if the month's experience level is one close to the national experience level.

As we only do this check on the first of each month, it may look strange sometimes.

Currently every pilot in TRACOM counts towards the 'instructor' count which is how overloading TRACOM is being 'misused'. [:D]
I am playing around with some tweaks on how it determines the instructors.
Currently I am going with:
1. must be in Training Command [as is]
2. must have flown more than 10 missions or had more than 10 kills [ must have flown some sort of mission in order to be a 'veteran']
3. must not be wounded [to cater for the possibility that a training mission injures them. As the next time this check runs will be a month later, the pilot will probably had returned to duty]
4. can be injured or killed while being treated as an instructor
In addition, there will be some randomness if the pilot will be included as an instructor for each of the 12 training cycles for the month.

Woah, woah, you are on the .exe again, what a treat on the NY Eve!

When you think it is behind you, you get pulled in again. [:D]

I have had accelerated training for Chinese and Soviet pilots, I am very sure neither has any TRACOM pilots.

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I have had accelerated training for Chinese and Soviet pilots, I am very sure neither has any TRACOM pilots.

You don't need TRACOM pilots to get 'accelerated'. If the normal experience improvement reaches the current national level, some pilots jump to the next level automatically.
TRACOM experience improvements allows this jump also.

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

ORIGINAL: Nomad

I have had accelerated training for Chinese and Soviet pilots, I am very sure neither has any TRACOM pilots.

You don't need TRACOM pilots to get 'accelerated'. If the normal experience improvement reaches the current national level, some pilots jump to the next level automatically.
TRACOM experience improvements allows this jump also.

This was supposed to be in response to Yaab, sorry I should have quoted him.

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

3. must not be wounded [to cater for the possibility that a training mission injures them. As the next time this check runs will be a month later, the pilot will probably had returned to duty]
4. can be injured or killed while being treated as an instructor

It's interesting that TRACOM instructors will have the possibility of being injured or killed, because on-map training is completely penalty-free. You can run 100 air units at 100% training for the duration of the war, and won't lose a single airframe or trainee, much less an instructor. Nobody has ever listed this as a bug, but realistically? That's not very realistic. There should be *some* chance that bad things can happen. Even ships on normal supply runs can hit a whale every now and then.

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: michaelm75au

3. must not be wounded [to cater for the possibility that a training mission injures them. As the next time this check runs will be a month later, the pilot will probably had returned to duty]
4. can be injured or killed while being treated as an instructor

It's interesting that TRACOM instructors will have the possibility of being injured or killed, because on-map training is completely penalty-free. You can run 100 air units at 100% training for the duration of the war, and won't lose a single airframe or trainee, much less an instructor. Nobody has ever listed this as a bug, but realistically? That's not very realistic. There should be *some* chance that bad things can happen. Even ships on normal supply runs can hit a whale every now and then.

That was answered in the past - along the lines of it would be too much coding to make it a feature of the game, so they adjusted the training numbers to account for the lost pilots and instructors and aircraft.