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SAM EMCON question

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:22 pm
by EmperorIke
I am pretty new to this game and I am trying to set up a scenario with an enemy SAM system. I am trying to figure out how to make it alter its EMCON settings based on if an air contact is in its range. Basically I want it to keep its radar off until it has a shot. Does anyone know how to set this up in-game? I know it could probably be done with code but I have no experience or skill there.

RE: SAM EMCON question

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:25 pm
by stww2
It should turn on the fire control radar on its own and shoot once the target is in range (depending on the WRA settings). However, obviously the initial detection will have to be made by another unit (usually a separate search radar). Furthermore, radar alone will not usually be able to determine the identity of the aircraft, so you will either need to: A) set the WCS on the SAM to Weapons Free for air contacts, B) create an exclusion zone that will classify air contacts that enter it as hostile), or C) identify the contact as hostile through some other method (visual, ELINT, etc.).

RE: SAM EMCON question

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:01 pm
by EmperorIke
Thanks for the reply, I do have the WRA set to free and the SAM is set to ignore EMCON if under attack, but even if I manually designate the target as hostile, it still refuses to engage unless I turn on radar in the EMCON tab. Do you know how to make that automatic?

RE: SAM EMCON question

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:38 pm
by stww2
What SAM battery are you trying to do this with? This question came up recently on the Discord, and subsequent testing with a couple different SAMs revealed a couple that would turn on their radars and engage targets and one battery that wouldn't. We never did figure out why the exception behaved differently than the others.

RE: SAM EMCON question

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:49 pm
by EmperorIke
I'm using the s-400. You're right, I did some testing and found that the other SAMs I was using would auto-target but the s-400 wouldn't.

RE: SAM EMCON question

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:25 pm
by KnightHawk75
ORIGINAL: EmperorIke

I'm using the s-400. You're right, I did some testing and found that the other SAMs I was using would auto-target but the s-400 wouldn't.
Off hand curious if the difference was the difference was:
Auto-fire: dedicated illumination sensors on-board (with or without FCR as well)
Did not: Only FCR radars.

Example:
SA-12 (has illuminators in addition to the grill pan FCR)
aegis (had spg-62 illuminator in addition to potentially FCR sensors)
SA-20\21 (only have FCR via the tombsone\grave stone)

Wondering if that is the difference anyone is seeing there, my thinking is maybe only the dedicated illuminators go hot. Or maybe it's the other way around and the needed illuminators are not going auto-hot but the FCR are?





RE: SAM EMCON question

Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:27 pm
by stww2
It's an interesting hypothesis. I haven't looked at the test scenario I did in a while but I'm pretty sure the S-400 was the SAM that wouldn't auto-target there as well. I guess you/I/we/someone would have to find other SAM batteries that lacked dedicated illumination sensors and see if they experienced the same issue in order to find out.

RE: SAM EMCON question

Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:03 am
by KnightHawk75
ORIGINAL: stww2

It's an interesting hypothesis. I haven't looked at the test scenario I did in a while but I'm pretty sure the S-400 was the SAM that wouldn't auto-target there as well. I guess you/I/we/someone would have to find other SAM batteries that lacked dedicated illumination sensors and see if they experienced the same issue in order to find out.

I tested sa-23 (has illuminators and a FCR) vs s-400 unit my hunch was correct, those with dedicated FCR who are set passive will (imho)correctly not fire till you activate their FCR and it paints the target - unless they have dedicated illuminators and the associated weapons. build 1147.16

List of units who illuminators would probably be pretty long here are the 53 pure\dedicatedly flag illuminators in the game:

Code: Select all

ID	Name	Comments
 237	Type 909(I)	1990, Sea Dart Illuminator, GFCR
 285	CA/SPG-515	Sea Sparrow & 76mm
 295	Type 86 Firelight TIR	Bloodhound Mk.2, Blue Anchor
 478	PE-541/M HPI	RB 97 Illuminator
 522	AN/MPQ-61 HPI	I-HAWK
 563	PE-53/R HPI [AN/MPQ-33 HPI]	Basic Hawk
 955	AN/MPQ-46 HPI	I-HAWK
 975	Low Blow [SNR-125]	-
 978	Fan Song F [SNR-75M]	-
 999	SA-12 TEL Illuminator	-
 1019	RTN-10X (Orion 10X) + RTN-12 Sirio CW	1973, MFCS
 1024	Mk95 [Radar]	MFCR, Mk91 FCS
 1040	Mk51 [Mk115 MFCS]	-
 1087	WM.25	Low-Level AD, Missile FCS
 1185	J/FCS-2-12	Missile + Gun FCR
 1468	Type 901	Sea Slug FCR
 1537	Head Lights C	SA-N-3
 1538	Head Lights B [4R60 Grom]	SA-N-3, SS-N-14
 1539	Head Lights A [4R60 Grom]	SA-N-3
 1588	Type 909	Sea Dart Illuminator, GFCR
 1599	AN/SPG-62 [Mk99 FCS]	-

Code: Select all

1660	WM.22	Missile FCS, Larger Ships
 1669	Mk25	Mk37 GFCS, SM-1MR ASuW(?)
 1869	MM/SPG-70 [RTN-10X Orion + RTN-12 Sirio CW]	RTN-10X Orion + RTN-12 Sirio CW, MFCR, Argo
 1881	RTN-30X (Orion 30X) [Radar]	SPG-76, Aspide
 2051	PE-541/R HPI	RB 77 Illuminator
 2201	J/FCS-2-31	Missile + Gun FCR
 2225	AN/SPG-49	Talos FCR
 2778	AN/MPQ-57 HPI	I-HAWK
 2782	Fan Song E [SNR-75]	-
 3068	Skyguard Sparrow Illuminator	-
 3079	J/FCS-2-23	Missile + Gun FCR
 3115	Mk92 Mod 12 CAS	GFCS, WM.28
 3174	RTN-30X (Orion 30X) [Radar]	Spada 2000 FCR
 3177	Spada Aspide Illuminator	-
 3178	Spada 2000 Aspide Illuminator	-
 3230	Fan Song C [SNR-75]	-
 3231	Fan Song B [SNR-75]	-
 3260	PE-54/R HPI [AN/MPQ-39 HPI]	Basic Hawk
 3328	CEA-MOUNT	Four-Faced Illuminator
 3425	MM/SPG-74 Dardo [Radar]	RTN-20X, Aspide
 3571	MM/SPG-76 [Radar]	RTN-30X, Aspide
 3632	Peel Group [4R90 Yatagan, Radar]	-

Code: Select all

4329	Type 87 Scorpion TIR	Bloodhound Mk.2
 4446	Fan Song A [RSNA-75]
 4454	Peel Group [4R90 Yatagan II, Radar]	-
 4457	AN/MPQ-33 HPI	Basic Hawk
 4818	SA-23 TEL Illuminator	-
 5276	AN/SPG-62 [Mk99 FCS, ABM Mod]	-
 5644	HPI [Mersad Upgrade]	Iran, AN/MPQ-46 Mod
 5709	Low Blow [UNV-2D]	-
 5756	Yo-Yo [B-200]	-
 6098	Generic Illuminator	-