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SAM EMCON question
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:22 pm
by EmperorIke
I am pretty new to this game and I am trying to set up a scenario with an enemy SAM system. I am trying to figure out how to make it alter its EMCON settings based on if an air contact is in its range. Basically I want it to keep its radar off until it has a shot. Does anyone know how to set this up in-game? I know it could probably be done with code but I have no experience or skill there.
RE: SAM EMCON question
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:25 pm
by stww2
It should turn on the fire control radar on its own and shoot once the target is in range (depending on the WRA settings). However, obviously the initial detection will have to be made by another unit (usually a separate search radar). Furthermore, radar alone will not usually be able to determine the identity of the aircraft, so you will either need to: A) set the WCS on the SAM to Weapons Free for air contacts, B) create an exclusion zone that will classify air contacts that enter it as hostile), or C) identify the contact as hostile through some other method (visual, ELINT, etc.).
RE: SAM EMCON question
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:01 pm
by EmperorIke
Thanks for the reply, I do have the WRA set to free and the SAM is set to ignore EMCON if under attack, but even if I manually designate the target as hostile, it still refuses to engage unless I turn on radar in the EMCON tab. Do you know how to make that automatic?
RE: SAM EMCON question
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:38 pm
by stww2
What SAM battery are you trying to do this with? This question came up recently on the Discord, and subsequent testing with a couple different SAMs revealed a couple that would turn on their radars and engage targets and one battery that wouldn't. We never did figure out why the exception behaved differently than the others.
RE: SAM EMCON question
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:49 pm
by EmperorIke
I'm using the s-400. You're right, I did some testing and found that the other SAMs I was using would auto-target but the s-400 wouldn't.
RE: SAM EMCON question
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:25 pm
by KnightHawk75
ORIGINAL: EmperorIke
I'm using the s-400. You're right, I did some testing and found that the other SAMs I was using would auto-target but the s-400 wouldn't.
Off hand curious if the difference was the difference was:
Auto-fire: dedicated illumination sensors on-board (with or without FCR as well)
Did not: Only FCR radars.
Example:
SA-12 (has illuminators in addition to the grill pan FCR)
aegis (had spg-62 illuminator in addition to potentially FCR sensors)
SA-20\21 (only have FCR via the tombsone\grave stone)
Wondering if that is the difference anyone is seeing there, my thinking is maybe only the dedicated illuminators go hot. Or maybe it's the other way around and the needed illuminators are not going auto-hot but the FCR are?
RE: SAM EMCON question
Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:27 pm
by stww2
It's an interesting hypothesis. I haven't looked at the test scenario I did in a while but I'm pretty sure the S-400 was the SAM that wouldn't auto-target there as well. I guess you/I/we/someone would have to find other SAM batteries that lacked dedicated illumination sensors and see if they experienced the same issue in order to find out.
RE: SAM EMCON question
Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:03 am
by KnightHawk75
ORIGINAL: stww2
It's an interesting hypothesis. I haven't looked at the test scenario I did in a while but I'm pretty sure the S-400 was the SAM that wouldn't auto-target there as well. I guess you/I/we/someone would have to find other SAM batteries that lacked dedicated illumination sensors and see if they experienced the same issue in order to find out.
I tested sa-23 (has illuminators and a FCR) vs s-400 unit my hunch was correct, those with dedicated FCR who are set passive will (imho)correctly not fire till you activate their FCR and it paints the target - unless they have dedicated illuminators and the associated weapons. build 1147.16
List of units who illuminators would probably be pretty long here are the 53 pure\dedicatedly flag illuminators in the game:
Code: Select all
ID Name Comments
237 Type 909(I) 1990, Sea Dart Illuminator, GFCR
285 CA/SPG-515 Sea Sparrow & 76mm
295 Type 86 Firelight TIR Bloodhound Mk.2, Blue Anchor
478 PE-541/M HPI RB 97 Illuminator
522 AN/MPQ-61 HPI I-HAWK
563 PE-53/R HPI [AN/MPQ-33 HPI] Basic Hawk
955 AN/MPQ-46 HPI I-HAWK
975 Low Blow [SNR-125] -
978 Fan Song F [SNR-75M] -
999 SA-12 TEL Illuminator -
1019 RTN-10X (Orion 10X) + RTN-12 Sirio CW 1973, MFCS
1024 Mk95 [Radar] MFCR, Mk91 FCS
1040 Mk51 [Mk115 MFCS] -
1087 WM.25 Low-Level AD, Missile FCS
1185 J/FCS-2-12 Missile + Gun FCR
1468 Type 901 Sea Slug FCR
1537 Head Lights C SA-N-3
1538 Head Lights B [4R60 Grom] SA-N-3, SS-N-14
1539 Head Lights A [4R60 Grom] SA-N-3
1588 Type 909 Sea Dart Illuminator, GFCR
1599 AN/SPG-62 [Mk99 FCS] -
Code: Select all
1660 WM.22 Missile FCS, Larger Ships
1669 Mk25 Mk37 GFCS, SM-1MR ASuW(?)
1869 MM/SPG-70 [RTN-10X Orion + RTN-12 Sirio CW] RTN-10X Orion + RTN-12 Sirio CW, MFCR, Argo
1881 RTN-30X (Orion 30X) [Radar] SPG-76, Aspide
2051 PE-541/R HPI RB 77 Illuminator
2201 J/FCS-2-31 Missile + Gun FCR
2225 AN/SPG-49 Talos FCR
2778 AN/MPQ-57 HPI I-HAWK
2782 Fan Song E [SNR-75] -
3068 Skyguard Sparrow Illuminator -
3079 J/FCS-2-23 Missile + Gun FCR
3115 Mk92 Mod 12 CAS GFCS, WM.28
3174 RTN-30X (Orion 30X) [Radar] Spada 2000 FCR
3177 Spada Aspide Illuminator -
3178 Spada 2000 Aspide Illuminator -
3230 Fan Song C [SNR-75] -
3231 Fan Song B [SNR-75] -
3260 PE-54/R HPI [AN/MPQ-39 HPI] Basic Hawk
3328 CEA-MOUNT Four-Faced Illuminator
3425 MM/SPG-74 Dardo [Radar] RTN-20X, Aspide
3571 MM/SPG-76 [Radar] RTN-30X, Aspide
3632 Peel Group [4R90 Yatagan, Radar] -
Code: Select all
4329 Type 87 Scorpion TIR Bloodhound Mk.2
4446 Fan Song A [RSNA-75]
4454 Peel Group [4R90 Yatagan II, Radar] -
4457 AN/MPQ-33 HPI Basic Hawk
4818 SA-23 TEL Illuminator -
5276 AN/SPG-62 [Mk99 FCS, ABM Mod] -
5644 HPI [Mersad Upgrade] Iran, AN/MPQ-46 Mod
5709 Low Blow [UNV-2D] -
5756 Yo-Yo [B-200] -
6098 Generic Illuminator -