Matrix Games Forums

Sorry if this has been asked but why does search 70% and 80% (did not take pic for 80) covers more area than 90%? I have seen this before when I was messing with Scen1 as well but I did not collect data.

Doh cannot link or post pics

Situation:
Patch 1126a or 1126b
Stock Coral Sea
Japan
Base Shortlands
Yokohama
Arc 260 to 280
Range 15
Altitude 10000

Result 70 and 80 search covers three arcs (including 260 to 290) but 90 only covers two arcs (260 to 280). All arcs are black.

Thanks in advance!

p.s. Thanks mind_messing for replicating this

lh3(dot)googleusercontent(dot)com(forward slash)gtGJk_oMHckdkptGvDBu1YzvF06b8lipvMMkXWKTSXNaIY2f_IwtnIK0NiTPTtd8MyE8jiYsa4XBmhdANoYTLtt1APmNpUtEksKEtwPV8ixsjmNKjyXBNWiaEp7I_4yYB3sl15cIHQbSTld4l_YgcK8aWHnfo5yDHbYf0YM-L4X9l0YxPMfFN9rFCFW5pXRczCkQPF6JlTxUqMjedrId06iEhOpOZtNlzSoWkR0x6ZNmRYD0Z46e4kQy_zxraH2EskCyV8WY9aVC1MpW1XtoWU_UD4puL4GfnKBrti4fsU2V4kmCbuoK85EbhXZzCCNvXKNTxlJ6NSBV31cQpV0Ob2NqUTs9hzukUy-NOP2MUhQ400NQUuXOk1sR9v5zY6WI1GAkRWymF5PTZolR1wydUCR0YAycJpumHiQnj9zvBXiJ_VXC3AUA6r5JDFAaaNFPOwi-c5o6QxRLARHN2XxS2cKqBkYmAB7R2k7KU4gFXnM5y74a_QH3nRoX399jxpu_7rEI8BVlOomSBIyn7GMW_Ylr6HZOODTmry1Hx3L-dsJCtpAOQFm2yRnF_BG_9Z9nmPz-4ka_qt0yJR2yYvbQXWL1F6A_QpOyOGAq-mL2KwzqSq9onXFPoh7iguMZWJMlotGVzIL-sgApjOW7-nKQ_2-FetG-dylwtIyEGxuzA61kWhuSjoeg2BIknd95jQ=w1000-no-tmp(dot)jpg

sorry for posting in a convoluted way... the problem can be replicated if you don't trust this link.

10 post minimum on the image display thing.

Your set arc is 260-280.

How many aircraft are serviceable in the group?

I'll try to replicate it in an ongoing game.

I replicated your settings (with a PB4Y squadron, 13 machines operational, flying out of Wallis Is. - I had two arcs at 70 and 90%, and three at 80%.

I then replicated them again, using an RNZAF Catalina group at Nadi with 7 operational aircraft. This time I had two arcs at 90% and 80%, and only had three at 70%.

I then did it again with an SBD group (24 machines) at Noumea, range 7 - and got the same result as you.

Lastly, I put a squadron of Hudsons at Perth (12 aircraft) on your settings, range 8. I got two arcs at 70 & 80%, and three arcs at 90%.

In the absence of any other obvious or known reason, I suspect what you have here is a dice roll to determine if some planes wander off the reservation a bit. It is a Grigsby game, after all.

I appreciate it (I can't even type hyphen without forum thinking it's a phone number...)

Additional info:
Serviceable 6
H6K4 Mavis
Squadron in question is 150 Yokohama KuT 1 Det

Are you sure the third arc is not green, when you set to 90% ?

The extra/third arc in only in 70/80% search and is black. There is only two arcs (both black) with 90% search.

Thanks Ian for confirming this phenomenon. If dice roll, then the extra arc is by design and working (harded to test but certainly doable)?

I can replicate, screenshots for reference are dchung's







With details

You can get strange graphical displays in the search arc feature, occasionally. It should show best case search patterns...

Here, is your scenario as I understand it, albeit with a 5 arc search. At a 90% setting all arcs are being searched.

That is a lovely map, Lowpes; what is it?

Here is a slightly different setting with the anomaly clearly shown at least on my graphical settings.

Finally, there is a lot of hidden features of naval search not really discussed in the manual nor in the addendum. I hesitate to include what I know for fear it is game myth...

Try setting up a head to head game and testing some of this stuff out.

ORIGINAL: dchunghk

The extra/third arc in only in 70/80% search and is black. There is only two arcs (both black) with 90% search.

Thanks Ian for confirming this phenomenon. If dice roll, then the extra arc is by design and working (harded to test but certainly doable)?

It looks random - sometimes you get an extra sector, sometimes you don't. If you do, you are sending less planes into your preferred search sectors, so it's not necessarily a good thing. However, it might turn out to be a good thing if an enemy sub or TF is spotted in the random third sector.

While the (usually undisclosed) game algorithms and formulae are at times complex, there is frequently a random element built in. You can never be confident of a precise outcome in advance. I.E. - "R.N.G" checks. I suspect here that there is a die-roll involved. It doesn't seem to be numbers of operational aircraft that matter, or range, so, it is probably something else.

ORIGINAL: Randy Stead

That is a lovely map, Lowpes; what is it?

I believe it is Kamikaze...

double post

I just don't see what the problem is. Based on the limited data provided, everything seems to be in accordance with how this was explained by the devs in August 2011.

Hint #1, you are flying well beyond 12 hexes.

Hint #2, that is a low cruising speed. Not good when combined with hint #1.

Alfred

ORIGINAL: Ian R

ORIGINAL: dchunghk

The extra/third arc in only in 70/80% search and is black. There is only two arcs (both black) with 90% search.

Thanks Ian for confirming this phenomenon. If dice roll, then the extra arc is by design and working (harded to test but certainly doable)?

It looks random - sometimes you get an extra sector, sometimes you don't. If you do, you are sending less planes into your preferred search sectors, so it's not necessarily a good thing. However, it might turn out to be a good thing if an enemy sub or TF is spotted in the random third sector.

While the (usually undisclosed) game algorithms and formulae are at times complex, there is frequently a random element built in. You can never be confident of a precise outcome in advance. I.E. - "R.N.G" checks. I suspect here that there is a die-roll involved. It doesn't seem to be numbers of operational aircraft that matter, or range, so, it is probably something else.

Not as random as you think.[:)]

There are certain die rolls involved but they modify player made settings. The rolls have a very limited, and somewhat predictable impact, if the player sets up the search appropriately. Now how many times have I said that searches should really be limited to a maximum of 12 hexes.

Alfred

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: Ian R

ORIGINAL: dchunghk

The extra/third arc in only in 70/80% search and is black. There is only two arcs (both black) with 90% search.

Thanks Ian for confirming this phenomenon. If dice roll, then the extra arc is by design and working (harded to test but certainly doable)?

It looks random - sometimes you get an extra sector, sometimes you don't. If you do, you are sending less planes into your preferred search sectors, so it's not necessarily a good thing. However, it might turn out to be a good thing if an enemy sub or TF is spotted in the random third sector.

While the (usually undisclosed) game algorithms and formulae are at times complex, there is frequently a random element built in. You can never be confident of a precise outcome in advance. I.E. - "R.N.G" checks. I suspect here that there is a die-roll involved. It doesn't seem to be numbers of operational aircraft that matter, or range, so, it is probably something else.

Not as random as you think.[:)]

There are certain die rolls involved but they modify player made settings. The rolls have a very limited, and somewhat predictable impact, if the player sets up the search appropriately. Now how many times have I said that searches should really be limited to a maximum of 12 hexes.

Alfred

They still work out beyond that - depends on the use case.

Tasked with range beyond 12 hexes, overall search density drops even within the first 12 hexes. With some plane models, even 12 hexes is really pushing it.

Alfred

Now how many times have I said that searches should really be limited to a maximum of 12 hexes.

Um, a lot.[:D]

Hey, I listen, you won't see any greater than 12 hexes on my map.[:-]

Thank you all!

Sorry I am overwhelmed by the game (and not that bright) so please correct me if my take is wrong:
1) The extra arc (and possibly other artifacts like extra range) is due to dice rolls.
2) The dice rolls are "predictive" in that the appearance of extra arc depends on player's search % setting.
3) The extra arc (280 to 290 in my example) is not free in that it reduces search strength in the set arc (260 to 280).