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I've been discussing, and since I know a defense contractor version exists, it can't be too inaccurate, but is this a game that just pretends to be accurate with it's top down bird's view GUI, or is it even remotely accurate?

https://www.warfaresims.com/?p=5129

ORIGINAL: itisyeetimetoday

I've been discussing, and since I know a defense contractor version exists, it can't be too inaccurate, but is this a game that just pretends to be accurate with it's top down bird's view GUI, or is it even remotely accurate?

[:)]

Gee thanks ... might want to explain your comment. You must know something the rest of us don't. Please explain why posting a specific answer at https://www.warfaresims.com/ was not the correct approach to this topic. I think it helped to some degree.

BDukes: Please send me a PM to further explain if I am missing some history related to the original Post . Likely, I am. Thanks in advance.

Repeat. Sorry .. delete.

ORIGINAL: itisyeetimetoday
I've been discussing, and since I know a defense contractor version exists, it can't be too inaccurate, but is this a game that just pretends to be accurate with it's top down bird's view GUI, or is it even remotely accurate?

It depends on what you mean by accurate! Geographically? It's just publicly available satellite data. It has the limitations associated with whatever data set they used.

The systems database is pretty good in many ways. They've made a lot of educated guesses and approximations here and there, which aren't necessarily terrible. There's some things that are just plain wrong, those are usually things where real world data isn't available in the public domain. There's other stuff that is uncannily correct. The EW model is hugely simplistic, and sort of squashes a variety of jamming techniques into one. It basically models barrage jamming, but the "generation" dependency suggests more than that, which introduces some wonkiness which is fine for entertainment purposes but probably ought not be taken too seriously for analytical purposes. Because of the weapon flight model, the A-Pole/F-Pole distances of weapons tend to be universally long. It's a detail, but it has tactical implications. If you're aware of it, in the pro-edition you can adjust it to reflect better data.

All models are wrong, some models are useful. Command is sufficiently correct to be useful for some purposes.

It's not bad. It's no worse than many of the things I've seen out there.

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

Gee thanks ... might want to explain your comment. You must know something the rest of us don't. Please explain why posting a specific answer at https://www.warfaresims.com/ was not the correct approach to this topic. I think it helped to some degree.

Sorry Kevin. Wasn't talking to you and should of been more verbose. Very sorry you seem to get so upset.[:)]

The original question.. what's the OP expect the answer to be. "Thanks, It is an inaccurate game that the devs try and market as accurate."

Mike

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

Gee thanks ... might want to explain your comment. You must know something the rest of us don't. Please explain why posting a specific answer at https://www.warfaresims.com/ was not the correct approach to this topic. I think it helped to some degree.

Hi Kevin. My mistake. I should of been clear. The goal was definitely not to upset you!

Mike

Now I get it. Sorry was busy also cooking dinner.

ORIGINAL: kevinkins

Now I get it. Sorry was busy also cooking dinner.

No worries!

I've been playing around with different burgers lately and have been getting lots of tips out of George Motz. Worth a watch if burgs are your thing.

https://www.georgemotz.com/watch

Just in case itisyeetimetoday is worried their thread is getting derailed with cooking tips. It totally is, not pretend is.

Mike

Yeah would be interested in a response from someone who has experience at the BN thru Corps and Theater levels in the intel/ops side; videos I'm seeing look like a lot of micromanaging that you would not do at those levels; but I don't really know of a civilian simulation that can do what I've used in BN/BDE/DIV/Corps level Joint Simulation Exercises. From what I'm seeing this game looks more focused on air/naval stuff and minutae of moving individual units rather than commanding squadrons/wings/fleet/groups whatever (formations)? I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this game from a game perspective any more than Close Combat/Combat Mission etc.; just wondering if anyone who has worked at those echelons in an ops/intel role has any imput on what they think of this game?

Also just from the looks of the game it seems kinda heavy on Top Gun and Crimson Tide but pretty lacking on anything you need to actually hold terrain...land units; or am I wrong?

loki1944 wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:48 am From what I'm seeing this game looks more focused on air/naval stuff and minutae of moving individual units rather than commanding squadrons/wings/fleet/groups whatever (formations)?

This simulation has the interesting duality of claiming to be mostly operationally oriented but in reality falling prey to many tactical details that an overseeing commander would probably not be involved in.

You can certainly play while attempting to use the mission editor to control only the "high-level" operational plans (and maybe the Operation Planner if it would actually work as marketed). But you'll find that if you really want to minimize losses in any particular scenario, there is no better way than to micromanage each unit while taking advantage of the idiosyncrasies of CMO's models. It's very easy to achieve 10:1 or higher kill/loss ratios against even a well-designed, well-scripted AI when a real conflict, that would not be achievable.

caelunshun wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:20 pm

loki1944 wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:48 am From what I'm seeing this game looks more focused on air/naval stuff and minutae of moving individual units rather than commanding squadrons/wings/fleet/groups whatever (formations)?

This simulation has the interesting duality of claiming to be mostly operationally oriented but in reality falling prey to many tactical details that an overseeing commander would probably not be involved in.

You can certainly play while attempting to use the mission editor to control only the "high-level" operational plans (and maybe the Operation Planner if it would actually work as marketed). But you'll find that if you really want to minimize losses in any particular scenario, there is no better way than to micromanage each unit while taking advantage of the idiosyncrasies of CMO's models. It's very easy to achieve 10:1 or higher kill/loss ratios against even a well-designed, well-scripted AI when a real conflict, that would not be achievable.

Yeah I guess I'm just spoiled by over 15 years of BN/BDE/DIV/Corps/Theater staff experience as an OPS/Intel/Fires guy; running a BDE as the S3 thru a WARFIGHTER or WAREX simulation was some of the most fun I've ever had; doing the stuff for real (albeit in less exciting low intesity combat operations) was also very enjoyable apart from bad sports on the other team lol. I guess the challenge would be to make a game that can replicate the primary staff along with facets of mission command; not to mention the basics like MDMP/JPP planning processes and actually developing orders as a staff would with the outputs being the tasks to subordinate units to be executed along with driving CCIRs/FFIRs/EEFIs; and having objectivess, NAI/TAI all FSCMs/FSCLs etct etc. to name a few things replicated and created all the way down based off that intial higher OPORD.

I wish there was a company that would hire some former staff from at least the BDE level to assist with designing a true wargame; that would bring the experience and realism to the effort; and make it clear that micro management is absolutely the bane of any successful mission command. But yes; another challenge is the ai; however if the AI is fed doctrinal "if then" parameters with maybe a slight dice roll for going off script I think that could address it a lot better.