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Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:47 am
by Sieppo
Showed incredible firepower so designed a monitor tank with a tactical nuclear grenade launcher. However turned out to have just inept attack values (100-200) and really does not perform in battle. What's the catch with the weapon?
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 4:21 am
by GuardsmanGary
Look at how many attacks per round it gets. That's the catch.
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:11 am
by Sieppo
ORIGINAL: GuardsmanGary
Look at how many attacks per round it gets. That's the catch.
Ahh yeah, a hundred [:D]. But it's still totally unable ton kill anything in battle. Just retreats after 1-3 rounds... Could this be the problem with more powerful weapons getting just more attacks? When none of those attacks are able to kill any enemies?
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:13 am
by Sieppo
I mean the attack power is just feeble..
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:17 am
by Zanotirn
There is no damage reduction for the attack power to overcome; when it comes to hitting a single target, 2 attacks of N power should have the same chance as one attack of 2N power. Except when you have one attack you can only possibly hit one target and can waste attack power (any attack power above the target's hitpoints has diminishing returns when it comes to chances to hit per attack power).
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:47 am
by zgrssd
Aside from the insane amount of attacks, Nuclear Weapons also are not subject to the callibre calculation.
But as you found out, it hardly maters as HP can reach the hundreds to thousands.
What exactly are you firing at? What is the base HP and the effective HP after entrenchment?
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:18 am
by guizzmo
The reason why your monitor tank is doing no damage is probably because you started the game on a previous. You need to restart a game on 1.09 in order to use those.
There was a rounding error which made the monitor tank use 0 ammo. Since 1.09, it has been changed, but the model still requests no ammo. There is therefore a 0% ammo modifier which prevents the monitor tank from doing any damage with tac nukes.
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:20 am
by guizzmo
When it works, it is by far the best tank in the game, easily wiping whole units. Nothing can withstand the whooping 14600 attack it does (and with atomic weapon applied research, the damage becomes absurd).
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:21 am
by Sieppo
ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Aside from the insane amount of attacks, Nuclear Weapons also are not subject to the callibre calculation.
But as you found out, it hardly maters as HP can reach the hundreds to thousands.
What exactly are you firing at? What is the base HP and the effective HP after entrenchment?
These robot weaklings that all my other armor have no problem massacring..
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:25 am
by Sieppo
I'm going to test a similar size unit with heavy plasma blasters that half the firepower but of course much larger attack value (only one attack though) how they fare..
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:26 am
by Sieppo
ORIGINAL: guizzmo
When it works, it is by far the best tank in the game, easily wiping whole units. Nothing can withstand the whooping 14600 attack it does (and with atomic weapon applied research, the damage becomes absurd).
Apparently it is not working?
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 7:27 am
by Sieppo
ORIGINAL: guizzmo
The reason why your monitor tank is doing no damage is probably because you started the game on a previous. You need to restart a game on 1.09 in order to use those.
There was a rounding error which made the monitor tank use 0 ammo. Since 1.09, it has been changed, but the model still requests no ammo. There is therefore a 0% ammo modifier which prevents the monitor tank from doing any damage with tac nukes.
Ahh thanks! I was wondering why there was no ammo on the unit and they kept asking for ammo. Problem solved![&o]
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 10:46 am
by zgrssd
ORIGINAL: Sieppo
ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Aside from the insane amount of attacks, Nuclear Weapons also are not subject to the callibre calculation.
But as you found out, it hardly maters as HP can reach the hundreds to thousands.
What exactly are you firing at? What is the base HP and the effective HP after entrenchment?
These robot weaklings that all my other armor have no problem massacring..
2417 HP???
I expected something like 400 before Armor Roll and Entrechnment - this is a whole Magnitude above that.
I think there is a Bug with the HP For Robotic Infantry.
But using 196 Attck vs 2417 HP:
1D196 vs 1D2417
2221 Results or 91.890773686388084402151427389326% where only the defender can win.
8,11% are split equally between Attacker and Defender Win.
So 4.055% Chance for the Attacker to win, 95,945% chance for the Defender to win.
Even if you fix the issue with the Gun having no Ammo, those are not good chances!
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 11:23 am
by Sieppo
ORIGINAL: zgrssd
ORIGINAL: Sieppo
ORIGINAL: zgrssd
Aside from the insane amount of attacks, Nuclear Weapons also are not subject to the callibre calculation.
But as you found out, it hardly maters as HP can reach the hundreds to thousands.
What exactly are you firing at? What is the base HP and the effective HP after entrenchment?
These robot weaklings that all my other armor have no problem massacring..
2417 HP???
I expected something like 400 before Armor Roll and Entrechnment - this is a whole Magnitude above that.
I think there is a Bug with the HP For Robotic Infantry.
But using 196 Attck vs 2417 HP:
1D196 vs 1D2417
2221 Results or 91.890773686388084402151427389326% where only the defender can win.
8,11% are split equally between Attacker and Defender Win.
So 4.055% Chance for the Attacker to win, 95,945% chance for the Defender to win.
Even if you fix the issue with the Gun having no Ammo, those are not good chances!
Yeah I mean I think there is something very much broken with Vic's decision to give more powerful weapons more attacks instead of more power with the battle mechanics he has given the game. What can you do, hope he reads this.
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 1:51 pm
by zgrssd
ORIGINAL: Sieppo
ORIGINAL: zgrssd
ORIGINAL: Sieppo
These robot weaklings that all my other armor have no problem massacring..
2417 HP???
I expected something like 400 before Armor Roll and Entrechnment - this is a whole Magnitude above that.
I think there is a Bug with the HP For Robotic Infantry.
But using 196 Attck vs 2417 HP:
1D196 vs 1D2417
2221 Results or 91.890773686388084402151427389326% where only the defender can win.
8,11% are split equally between Attacker and Defender Win.
So 4.055% Chance for the Attacker to win, 95,945% chance for the Defender to win.
Even if you fix the issue with the Gun having no Ammo, those are not good chances!
Yeah I mean I think there is something very much broken with Vic's decision to give more powerful weapons more attacks instead of more power with the battle mechanics he has given the game. What can you do, hope he reads this.
My main issue was about the Robots HP's being a Order of Magnitude higher then I expected. That is going to ruin everything.
I agree that the splitting needs some work. I actually made a suggestion on that thematic:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4952524
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 2:35 pm
by laagamer
As a new player, all I'm getting out of this is don't use nukes.
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:23 pm
by Malagant
ORIGINAL: laagamer
As a new player, all I'm getting out of this is don't use nukes.
And get some robots!
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 8:17 pm
by newageofpower
ORIGINAL: laagamer
As a new player, all I'm getting out of this is don't use nukes.
Nukes work fine, nuke monitors were bugged in Sieppo's game's patch.
ORIGINAL: Malagant
And get some robots!
Robots cost HiTech, which make them worthless due to how rare HiTech is (compared to the advantage of using your scarce HiTech to make some Plasma weapons instead of robots)
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 2:12 am
by KingHalford
Nukes are incredibly powerful, and hi-tech is not rare, you can build them in the hi-tech factory easily enough.
RE: Tactical nuclear grenade launcher just inept
Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 5:39 pm
by newageofpower
ORIGINAL: KingHalford
Nukes are incredibly powerful, and hi-tech is not rare, you can build them in the hi-tech factory easily enough.
You'll notice that upgrading the HT factory consumes HT, -and- takes forever, in any practical game they take forever to accrue.