Matrix Games Forums

Someone asked about this so I thought I would post it for everyone. It's only Barbarossa btw. 15 June to 31 December.

ORIGINAL: Lobster

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith
BTW, weren't you working on a scenario of the entire WWII from 1933, world scale at 2.5km per hex? Whatever became of that? I was SO looking forward to playing it.

I'm assuming sarcasm there but as long as you bring it up. Deploying the Axis. I have no good information about deployment at the regimental scale so I go with divisional. I'll let the Axis players decide how to deploy divisional, corp and army assets depending on historical assigned areas of operation since there's no hard information to go on. They'll have a week to do this. The turn before the invasion, 21 June, the Soviets will be allowed to move each frontier unit one hex in either direction parallel to the frontier. This will keep the German player from playing the opening move over and over and over again to get that perfect first turn move that some people thinks make them extra good generals. Variety is the spice of life. [;)]

I was concerned I wouldn't have enough formations for the Soviets but squeezed it in at 980 formations with each infantry/mech/tank division in it's own formation.

You can get a good idea of the immensity of the undertaking on the German side.

Wonder if it will be even playable, not only for the old and aging TOAW system, but for the humans as well. Let alone the AI.

Impressive map. would it be possible to extend the map west towards Berlin one day? Or, is it already limited by what the game engine can do?

This a great work 👍
Any particular need to have some much ground east of Moscow?

The map is fantastic, but I worry with the size of the map and terrain, with objectives and victory location and then with the maxing of formations and zillion of units, will the game even work or just crash?

ORIGINAL: Zovs

Wonder if it will be even playable, not only for the old and aging TOAW system, but for the humans as well. Let alone the AI.

It has the same AI as FitE2. [:D]

Won't be any different than playing that. Well, it will be a bit less time.

ORIGINAL: ncc1701e

Impressive map. would it be possible to extend the map west towards Berlin one day? Or, is it already limited by what the game engine can do?

We can't make maps that large.

ORIGINAL: gliz2

This a great work 👍
Any particular need to have some much ground east of Moscow?

Just taking Moscow would not have been enough. The population centers between Moscow and Gorkiy also need to be dealt with not to mention the factories around Gorkiy. Like any board game there are levels of victory and defeat.

ORIGINAL: Zovs

The map is fantastic, but I worry with the size of the map and terrain, with objectives and victory location and then with the maxing of formations and zillion of units, will the game even work or just crash?

Mine doesn't. Years ago I could run the old FitE on my old piece of crap machine and it would take forever to load but it wouldn't crash my machine. No TOAW scenario ever has regardless of it's size. Maybe if you have an old 486 or something like that with 128k memory. [:D]

Sounds like you don't trust Bob's and Ralph's work. They do good work. [;)]

I currently have 16 GB RAM, 500 GB SSD and 3 cores. I think the code is ancient and over loaded and won’t be able to perform very well with the size of your map, how many units do you have? I think it will break Elmers little mind...

Truly impressive scale and level of details! There's one thing that a little annoys me though. It seems that most (if not all) wargame WWII maps tend to depict reservoirs that were yet non-existent during the war. For example, only 1 out 6 reservoirs on Dnieper existed during the war. Most Volga reservoirs were also constructed only after the war. However, it seems that all today's reservoirs are present on this map.

You're seeing swamp aka flooded marsh. The only dam is at Zap.

Oh. I see. Yeah, it's hard to tell the difference between marsh and river at this scale

Like that you’re injecting some player defined deployments into the scenario and limiting the killer first move syndrome. Think there are quite a few scenarios which would benefit from your design.

In the New Patch thread post #44 you stated, “I have no good information about deployment at the regimental scale so I go with divisional”. That almost sounds like your base maneuver unit is the division. I’m probably misreading your intent; please clarify.

Regards

ORIGINAL: rhinobones

In the New Patch thread post #44 you stated, “I have no good information about deployment at the regimental scale so I go with divisional”. That almost sounds like your base maneuver unit is the division. I’m probably misreading your intent; please clarify.

I have found only a few maps that display where individual manuever regiments on either side are deployed. These cover small areas and only one or two divisions on each side. Even less information is to be had for division/corps/army/force level support elements. So, where do you put all of that? It amounts to a huge amount of units. WitE uses a simple assignment method where you simply assign support elements to forces with no physical units involved. TOAW has no such function.

What I have done is to start the game one week before the invasion begins. For the Axis all support elements are stacked with or in the vicinity of a parent HQ unless it is specifically assigned to a different HQ when the invasion began. This one week pre invasion allows the Axis player to move support elements to areas where manuever elements belonging to a HQ are positioned. For instance if a division is part of a corps that is part of an army that is part of an army group then those support elements belonging to the corps, army or army group can be moved to the division's deployment area to support the division. Otherwise I would be dictating to the Axis player where they have to use support elements without any concrete proof that is actually where those support elements were deployed.

Further, since I don't have enough information to deploy divisonal manuever regiments divisions have deployment areas. The regiments and divisional support elements and any higher level support elements belonging to the division's hierarchy can also be deployed in that area.

I can't see any other way to deploy support elements or a division's regiments without just guessing where all of these support elements and regiments went. I feel that would be unfair to the Axis player. On a map with a larger scale it might not matter as much but when you get down to 2.5km per hex and one day turns it makes a big difference. Divisions are still deployed in areas where they appear to belong. It's not like entire army groups are allowed to redeploy. The Axis player will have to be somewhat effiecient in moving the support elements since they would want artillery to be above 100% supply. I'll probably increase Axis supply until 22 June to help with that. And honestly, the Germans didn't even have many of their divisions in their jumping off points a week before the invasion.

SWEET! Can't wait to give a go on it

Me and David will give it a workout ... when's beta? 2022 sometime? Hurry up, man, I ain't gonna live forever!!

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith


Me and David will give it a workout ... when's beta? 2022 sometime? Hurry up, man, I ain't gonna live forever!!

You'd need to live forever to play this.

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith


Me and David will give it a workout ... when's beta? 2022 sometime? Hurry up, man, I ain't gonna live forever!!

You'd need to live forever to play this.

Pfff. This is all amateur stuff. Now, if it was a 1m hex - individual soldier scale representation of the entire Eastern Front 1941-1945, then we would be talking. Anything less than that is not a suitable representation of the conflict.

ORIGINAL: jmlima


Pfff. This is all amateur stuff. Now, if it was a 1m hex - individual soldier scale representation of the entire Eastern Front 1941-1945, then we would be talking. Anything less than that is not a suitable representation of the conflict.

Come on- really, you need to model the individual limbs and organs so you can model the effect of various injuries.

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

ORIGINAL: jmlima


Pfff. This is all amateur stuff. Now, if it was a 1m hex - individual soldier scale representation of the entire Eastern Front 1941-1945, then we would be talking. Anything less than that is not a suitable representation of the conflict.

Come on- really, you need to model the individual limbs and organs so you can model the effect of various injuries.

I stand corrected. You are, of course, entirely correct.

I now need to ask, giving the possible usage of atomic bombs, do we dare to go to atomic particle level?