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Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Mon May 31, 2021 3:57 pm
by dduckett
In moving an artillery unit I noticed I could bombard locations where no units visible that were 'Guerrilla' units. First time I had seen this. Curious if that is the intended behavior (or a bug) since it gives away Guerrilla positions despite my unit being unable to detect them other ways.
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:12 am
by golden delicious
ORIGINAL: dduckett
In moving an artillery unit I noticed I could bombard locations where no units visible that were 'Guerrilla' units. First time I had seen this. Curious if that is the intended behavior (or a bug) since it gives away Guerrilla positions despite my unit being unable to detect them other ways.
The hex is "observed", which means mousing over the hex you would see the guerrilla unit, even though it's not displayed on the map.
It's one of the more dubious design elements in recent version of TOAW that guerrilla units are hidden-but-not hidden: the correct action for the player is to scroll his pointer over every hex in the rear area at the start of every turn to locate the guerrilla units. This isn't fun for anyone so I think either guerrilla units should simply be visible in the hex (provided the hex is at least "observed"), or never visible even if you mouse over the hex, unless the hex is "spotted".
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 5:44 am
by jmlima
ORIGINAL: golden delicious
... I think either guerrilla units should simply be visible in the hex (provided the hex is at least "observed"), or never visible even if you mouse over the hex, unless the hex is "spotted".
Seconded. Even a '?' shown on the hex would do.
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 2:53 pm
by Hellen_slith
I like it the way it is!
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:37 pm
by Lobster
ORIGINAL: golden delicious
ORIGINAL: dduckett
In moving an artillery unit I noticed I could bombard locations where no units visible that were 'Guerrilla' units. First time I had seen this. Curious if that is the intended behavior (or a bug) since it gives away Guerrilla positions despite my unit being unable to detect them other ways.
The hex is "observed", which means mousing over the hex you would see the guerrilla unit, even though it's not displayed on the map.
It's one of the more dubious design elements in recent version of TOAW that guerrilla units are hidden-but-not hidden: the correct action for the player is to scroll his pointer over every hex in the rear area at the start of every turn to locate the guerrilla units. This isn't fun for anyone so I think either guerrilla units should simply be visible in the hex (provided the hex is at least "observed"), or never visible even if you mouse over the hex, unless the hex is "spotted".
Kind of defeats everything about guerrillas. Makes them pointless. [:D]
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:35 pm
by Hellen_slith
ORIGINAL: Lobster
ORIGINAL: golden delicious
ORIGINAL: dduckett
In moving an artillery unit I noticed I could bombard locations where no units visible that were 'Guerrilla' units. First time I had seen this. Curious if that is the intended behavior (or a bug) since it gives away Guerrilla positions despite my unit being unable to detect them other ways.
The hex is "observed", which means mousing over the hex you would see the guerrilla unit, even though it's not displayed on the map.
It's one of the more dubious design elements in recent version of TOAW that guerrilla units are hidden-but-not hidden: the correct action for the player is to scroll his pointer over every hex in the rear area at the start of every turn to locate the guerrilla units. This isn't fun for anyone so I think either guerrilla units should simply be visible in the hex (provided the hex is at least "observed"), or never visible even if you mouse over the hex, unless the hex is "spotted".
Kind of defeats everything about guerrillas. Makes them pointless. [:D]
I KNOW, man, in my FitE2 game w/ david, its like, he MUST be mousing over every hex to be able to find my Roving Harrison.
Like I know he really does that, because it took him all that 2 hours to turn his move, and my P Harrison unit .... is ...... oh, I guess he must have missed ol' Rover
Yeah, like he gonna do that <rolls eyes> or like the PO does that.
Sure, man. Whatever you say. Do you even PLAY this game?
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:47 pm
by Lobster
ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith
ORIGINAL: Lobster
ORIGINAL: golden delicious
The hex is "observed", which means mousing over the hex you would see the guerrilla unit, even though it's not displayed on the map.
It's one of the more dubious design elements in recent version of TOAW that guerrilla units are hidden-but-not hidden: the correct action for the player is to scroll his pointer over every hex in the rear area at the start of every turn to locate the guerrilla units. This isn't fun for anyone so I think either guerrilla units should simply be visible in the hex (provided the hex is at least "observed"), or never visible even if you mouse over the hex, unless the hex is "spotted".
Kind of defeats everything about guerrillas. Makes them pointless. [:D]
I KNOW, man, in my FitE2 game w/ david, its like, he MUST be mousing over every hex to be able to find my Roving Harrison.
Like I know he really does that, because it took him all that 2 hours to turn his move, and my P Harrison unit .... is ...... oh, I guess he must have missed ol' Rover
Yeah, like he gonna do that <rolls eyes> or like the PO does that.
Sure, man. Whatever you say. Do you even PLAY this game?
I have zero idea of what you are talking about. The OP is playing a Vietnam scenario. [8|]
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 5:15 am
by golden delicious
The point is, the game currently rewards the player who has the time and patience to do something extremely boring and time consuming.
Why? Because it sounded like a good feature when it was added to a list in TOAW III. Guerrillas didn't work like this in COW. Technically, guerrillas are just as visible now as they were then- it's just laborious to find them. Either hide them properly, or do away with the notional concealment they have now. It's stupid.
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:42 am
by larryfulkerson
I concur. Hidden units should be hidden. Visible units should be visible. Not in some kind of weird superposition of both states.
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 2:15 pm
by 76mm
Agreed...players shouldn't have to hunt and peck around for "invisible" units. Tedious, time-consuming, poor gameplay.
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 7:45 am
by Hellen_slith
ORIGINAL: Lobster
ORIGINAL: Hellen_slith
ORIGINAL: Lobster
Kind of defeats everything about guerrillas. Makes them pointless. [:D]
I KNOW, man, in my FitE2 game w/ david, its like, he MUST be mousing over every hex to be able to find my Roving Harrison.
Like I know he really does that, because it took him all that 2 hours to turn his move, and my P Harrison unit .... is ...... oh, I guess he must have missed ol' Rover
Yeah, like he gonna do that <rolls eyes> or like the PO does that.
Sure, man. Whatever you say. Do you even PLAY this game?
I have zero idea of what you are talking about. The OP is playing a Vietnam scenario. [8|]
Of course you don't, or you are being deliberately obtuse again.
The principle is the same no matter the scenario. Dig?
BTW, I was looking for that AAR of yours, could not find. <shrug>
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:22 am
by Lobster
Seems to me I'm not the only one who thinks something is amiss with how guerrilla units can be found. And here's a news flash, FitE is not the only scenario that uses guerrillas. But if you think they should stay as they are, fine. Considering how slowly the game is being developed it probably will stay the same. BTW, I don't see you on the beta team. Did you sign up for it? See, crap like that doesn't mean squat. [:D]
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 10:48 am
by Lobster
On another note. Boonierat went to a lot of trouble to make his series of Vietnam scenarios. This exploit throws all of that effort out the window. I think just making his scenarios work properly would be worth making guerrilla units actually invisible. Not to mention all the other Vietnam scenarios made.
https://sites.google.com/site/vietnamcombatoperations/
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:47 am
by golden delicious
ORIGINAL: Lobster
On another note. Boonierat went to a lot of trouble to make his series of Vietnam scenarios. This exploit throws all of that effort out the window. I think just making his scenarios work properly would be worth making guerrilla units actually invisible. Not to mention all the other Vietnam scenarios made.
https://sites.google.com/site/vietnamcombatoperations/
You could just have a house rule: "no snooping for guerrillas"
Also, and to touch on another thread, it might be worthwhile to revisit the theatre recon ratings in scenarios like this.
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:45 pm
by Lobster
While that might seem like a solution there would be occaisions where simply moving the cursor from one place to another would reveal units. And pretending like you didn't see it wouldn't make you unsee it. Boonierat's scenarios have lots of guerrillas so it would be highly likely to accidently find them. [:)]
It doesn't really matter though. I doubt this will be touched on by Bob since he has more then he can handle anyway. A one legged man in a butt kicking contest.
RE: Bombarding guerrilla unit that is not visible
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:14 am
by StuccoFresco
Yeah, this is a really bad way to handle guerrillas.