Matrix Games Forums

Hello there, welcome to this joint AAR.

The settings we have for this game are as follows:

FOW - On
Movement FOW - On
Automate AI Air Assist - Off
Enhanced Player TB Control - On

As the general consensus is that temporary motorisation is broken, until the new ruleset regarding it comes out, me and sil01 have agreed to Axis being only able to temp motorise one division while the Soviets are able to temporary motorise two units per turn. This restriction lasts until December 1941.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that we also agreed for there to be no disbanding of units on turn 1 only and that there is about a 4-5 turn delay.

T1 - Air losses

The air war is something I need to work on during T1. While my losses are high, they should go down in subsequent turns. About half of the 92 aircraft lost in air combat were Romanian bombers; which could have been worse. It also helped to have bombed airbases that had fighters first to ensure that they won't be able to intercept further missions during D1. I also used ground support in combats where it would help and to draw out and destroy the VVS and this time, with there pilots.

T1 - AGN

The way I like to start the attacks is to use the security divisions to clear out the weak fortified units. While this may add some combat delay to some hexes, I think the saving of 50 CPP on plenty of infantry divisions make up for this, allowing for them to shatter divisions they attack after they advance and helping to sustain attacks in later turns. Despite the combat delay my units reach Riga, Daugavpils, and Polotsk.

T1 - AGC

Same thing here. Used the SS cavalry brigade and security units to clear the way and pushed my units through. 3rd Panzergruppe captured Minsk and pushed on using the Minsk-Smolensk highway while 2nd Panzergruppe sealed the Bialystok pocket. I wasn't too worried about the pockets getting re-opened as a lot of the units were routed with heavy losses and typically have low MPs on the turn they recover. The hexes I didn't ZOC had difficult terrain that would further impede Soviet divisions from cutting my units off.

T1 - AGS

The South, historically, yielded the least gains during the initial invasion and does so too here. I considered making pockets, but I wanted to keep my armour concentrated and pushed to Rovno. To pocket or not, that is the question. There are trade offs for sure. Either pocket units and eliminate it 100% along with capturing equipment (plus preventing the unit from reforming for a good amount of turns) or attack and route the divisions, which allows your units to push further and keep up better with your tanks. I'm choosing to go for the most aggressive advance possible in the South, with speed being the priority. I also ensure to capture the airfields at Dubno and Hranivka to give forward level 2 airbases to fighters and recon planes.

T1 - Ground losses and thoughts

My ground losses for turn 1 are not too bad, slightly above 11000. A few things I should have done differently this turn was not bothering at all with recon directives during the air phase. I wanted to get an idea of where units were and help reveal their CV, but I realised after that I could have just defeated any unit in the way as this was T1. 20 planes of this type lost isn't too big of a deal though so it shouldn't have any impact later on. If anyone has any questions or suggestions that could help me improve my T1, please let me know.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I placed practically as many corps into the assault HQs. In addition, I also placed all my R.A.D support units into I Corps to concentrate rail repairs to areas where my FBD won't be. Lastly I moved all my super heavy arty, K3, and siege guns 11 Army for an upcoming attack on Odessa.

That's some pretty huge Turn 1 ground losses. Its usually in the range of 200k.

Yeah, I didn't really bother with as much pocketing as I've seen others do. Right now I'm just waiting for sil01 to continue with his turn before I continue posting here.

Interested to see how this goes, since you completely blew away all the border defenses rather than pocket. There is nothing pocketed south of the marshes.

I may be wrong, but I think you'll regret that; we'll see where you are at turn 3/4

To pocket or not, that is the question. There are trade offs for sure. Either pocket units and eliminate it 100% along with capturing equipment (plus preventing the unit from reforming for a good amount of turns) or attack and route the divisions, which allows your units to push further and keep up better with your tanks.

I would say that the losses aren't the important part about forcing surrenders at this stage of the game. It's getting counters off the map and thereby reducing ZOC and providing the panzers opportunity for operational freedom. You want to get east flipping hex control without having to fight. If you push the enemy back and don't pocket them to get them out of your way the line will thicken and the pushing will get much harder. I'm in my first Wite2 GC now, but the map has a lot more terrain favorable to the defender in my estimation.

Yeah I agree with the part about counters and reducing ZOC from destroying them. But honestly in 1941 no soviet position no matter how thick unless maybe in the north or in dug-in in depth positions can withstand attacks from 50+ CPP units with air support. From my experience as long as you maintain the perfect balance between resting troops in an assault HQ and attacking you can keep the Soviet line constantly off balance (especially in the South) and form pockets later on. Any units with low TOE if attacked is more likely to shatter so shouldn't be used for front line duties or ZOCing.

Am interested in seeing how you do in the south. I also favor an opening that routs more units then it pockets, preferring to keep the panzers concentrated in the south. Although I feel as though the superior move is to clear the lvov-Proskurov rail line, allowing the panzers to threaten 3 different axis of advance. Not to mention securing rapid rail repair east, something I feel you will be hurting on here.

Greetings to all WITE2 community!
WITE2 is a serious challenge and new opportunities.
Now the struggle for each line matters and it is possible to defeat the enemy without operational encirclements.
Total war on every kilometer.
==============================================
Another home rule of this game is that there is no disband on the first move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I85fhj_P0zc

Assessment of the situation =====================

----------------AGN ------------------------------
Riga is captured and the troops in Kurland are cut off- bad.
Seized bridgeheads on the Daugava - bad.

----------------AGC ------------------------------
Seized bridgeheads on the Dvina - bad.
The bulk of the tanks south of Minsk - good.

---------------AGS -------------------------------
The bulk of the tanks makes a frontal strike on Rovno - good.
Troops from the Lvov ledge can be withdrawn - good.

Priority actions of the Stavka ==================

1. All aviation is withdrawn to the reserve.
2. All SUs are put into Stavka.
3. Air defense regiments and brigades are withdrawn to the rear industrial centers.
4. Fighters I24, I29 are trained for bombers.
5. All weakened units (which can be moved) are sent to remote TB.
6. All rifle divisions TOE = 70.
7. Construction of Forts in Leningrad and Crimea.
8. Withdrawal of troops from the Lvov ledge by railway.
9. Transfer of troops along the railway with unloading in Pskov.
10. Transfer of troops along the railway with unloading in Smolensk.
11. Transfer of troops along the railway with unloading in Kiev.
12. Creation of new SUs - 24 MG bat and 4 AAMG.

Fighting ============================================

1. Cut off the advanced tank units near Rovno (temporary motorization of 2 units).

The defense is complete.

South closed securely.
North and Center are a thin line. This is all that we have managed this week.
We'll have to stick with what we have.

It is too early to plan strategic defense.
Only from the second week will we see the true directions of the tanks.

Nice maps, they look good! Solid deployments in the south and north too.


If you count the MP needed for him to get across the Dnieper, you only needed to maintain ZOC across the left bank of the Dnieper to prevent a crossing next turn tho. This frees up your stronger units to defend the land bridge.

Axis T2 - State of the front

The main pocket at Bialystok-Minsk has held firm. Only one of the pockets in the north was opened by a very lucky rifle division. The isolated panzers in the South don't really mean much. Units on T1 are stocked with enough supplies to tough out one turn of isolation.

Events so far consist of garrison shortage events; which should go away with my own managing and equipment being sent over time.

T2 - Disaster!

Unfortunately, the drive in which I had all my end of turn saves has crashed and all of the data from T2 to T5 is gone. There was no indication that my drive was going to die before it happened. I am fortunate that I only placed games and entertainment in that hard drive and that all the important stuff is in my much safer SSD. I am unsure now how to continue the AAR for the Axis for T2 to T5 aside from the beginning of turn file used above which I can get again from the emails me and sil sent each other.

Should I just use the beginning of turn file for the turns lost or no? I think that it really makes it more difficult to describe what I did the turn previous after sil has already made his move...

Lesson to learn, back up your data more frequently than I do.

At least with it being a dual AAR, you can still explain what happens in your turn somewhat, and Sil can fill in some of the blanks, with his turn explanations
Not a perfect solution but it'll be winter before we know it, so 4 turns of pics, will get caught up in no time

Yeah I'm hoping that I can explain what happens in the turns lost when sil posts his turns and I can use his pictures for myself.