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Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:52 pm
by sillyflower
Game 1 at start of R 1st turn after the fascists invade the Rodina, our NM had climbed to 33 after suffering 187 casualties.
Game 2 in December army XP (tx to Nirosi below)was also 33 after 7 months of war and about 900 casualties. From memory (which is not 100% reliable) it was about 4 turns to get to 31.
Am I lucky in game 1 or unlucky in game 2, or both? Either way, it does seem a little too random to be fair to either side.
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:09 pm
by ncc1701e
Hard to tell. I did not get exactly how NM is increasing:
1. Is it with losses?
2. Is it with destroyed units?
3. Is it with battles fought?
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:12 pm
by Nirosi
I assume it is national XP (not morale)? If I recall correctly Alvaro mentioned in a post that is battles fought. Although inside that, but I guess there could be other variations such as loses... or not?
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:25 pm
by sillyflower
I didn't keep a tally of combats but obviously there have been very many times more in game 2.
I also thought XP boost was tied to no. of combats, but ? also losses, but I'm less concerned about the parameters than what seems to be a huge random element
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:13 pm
by ncc1701e
Agree the difference is huge but knowing the formula may help to understand why.
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:18 pm
by ncc1701e
Did you run away? Did you try any counter attack even at low odds?
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:16 pm
by sillyflower
ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
Did you run away? Did you try any counter attack even at low odds?
You should know - you are my opponent in game 2 [:D]. I can't remember re our game, but no c/a yet in game 1 obviously
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:54 pm
by ncc1701e
ORIGINAL: sillyflower
You should know - you are my opponent in game 2 [:D]. I can't remember re our game, but no c/a yet in game 1 obviously
I wasn't sure.
So you made two attacks only on one infantry corps near Leningrad. No other counter attack.
The majority of your losses was during the Kiev pocket where I did surround about 7 corps.
I took a souvenir.
Do units that surrender count in the increase of the experience?
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:29 am
by Harrybanana
ORIGINAL: sillyflower
Game 1 at start of R 1st turn after the fascists invade the Rodina, our NM had climbed to 33 after suffering 187 casualties.
Game 2 in December army XP (tx to Nirosi below)was also 33 after 7 months of war and about 900 casualties. From memory (which is not 100% reliable) it was about 4 turns to get to 31.
Am I lucky in game 1 or unlucky in game 2, or both? Either way, it does seem a little too random to be fair to either side.
I am guessing that I am your opponent in game 1 (just my luck). I have also found that there can be a large discrepancy from game to game in how quickly or slowly National Experience goes up. I think my worst was my game was with Hadros where I was the Allies. It took my US troops almost 2 years (and many many battles) to advance from 45% experience to 50%. But of course the Russian number is far more important. I have had games where the Russians have reached 50% (from a start of35%) by the Winter of 41/42 and other games where it has taken until the Winter of 42/43.
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:40 am
by ncc1701e
In this situation, 1942 is more than problematic for the Red Army imo.
@Alvaro, anything justifying this large discrepancy? Just would like to confirm how this is calculated.
Thanks
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 12:29 pm
by AlvaroSousa
It has never been a problem. It is a random chance each time there is combat. The chance is small but always by 1943 the Soviets catch up
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:13 am
by ncc1701e
The problem is that the Red Army now starts at 30% instead of 35%. When German player put a "death star" of 12 Panzer corps all together in one single point of the frontline, this is very difficult.
Before this modification, I was finding 1941/1942 just about right against a good German player. Now, I did not find a solution yet to save Moscow.
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 12:51 pm
by Harrybanana
I personally would be disappointed if the Axis massed their armour with Moscow as the objective and failed to capture it. However, if they are able to do this while at the same time capturing Leningrad and driving deep in the South than that would be a problem. Losing Moscow by itself is not fatal to the Russians, so long as the Red Army itself remains strong and they are able to hold territory elsewhere.
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:50 pm
by ncc1701e
I have a psychological problem. Losing Moscow is like losing the game for me. [:D]
Seriously, I must do something wrong.
For example, in this PBEM, Barbarossa started in April 1941. Withdrawal, in good order, since then with many battles lost in May, June, July and now we are at the beginning of August.
We are August 1st. Germans are at one hex of Leningrad. Four hexes of Moscow.
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:50 pm
by ncc1701e
My casualties.
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:51 pm
by ncc1701e
My forces.
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 2:55 pm
by ncc1701e
The Russian army experience is at 36% since it is now starting at 30% only.
I didn't understand the rationale for lowering it.
Anyhow, I have taken casualties. I am replacing them 200PP to 250PP per turn. But, so far, most of my units are barely at 32% experience.
I have Anti-Tank 1941 and Assault 1941 discovered since beginning of 1941.
Most of my received armies (the one forming by default in the Deployment window) are not even upgrading and are still at Assault 1939 or Anti-Tank 1939 (when I change the advancement).
I have bought 4 armies (Anti-Tank 1941) in April when Barbarossa started.
I have still Infantry Rifle Corps at Anti-Tank 1940 but at 30% experience. Few of them converted to half armies.
All my tank / mechanized corps are at Heavy Armor 1941 but are pushed like twigs.
And, I have seven forming armies that are not coming...
Is the Red Army strong enough for you?
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 3:36 pm
by Flaviusx
Soviets got nerfed too hard in the last big patch, imo, and this because of a 42 Barbarossa that basically nobody ever bothers with. The effect here is to make 41 a lot rougher for the Sovs.
I'd like to see the experience hit reverted, and maybe even the hit to Soviet mobile units. Between this and the much improved BoA, the balance has definitely swung over to the Axis. I'm okay with the BoA as is, but with the UK tied down now and not very able to ship over PPs in 41, I don't think the Sovs need to be hit so hard as they have been.
There is a reason Sveint is doing wild things in this 1940 Barbarossa you are seeing. It might not work but prior to this patch it would not even be plausible to try this.
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:36 pm
by sveint
I'm just trying Barbarossa 40 for fun, I have no hopes of actually winning the game.
What nerfs hit the Soviets? So far I don't notice much. But I am losing my first game as the Allies catastrophically, the UK sure got hit hard (but in a good way, they were too easy before)!
In my latest game I am trying Barbarossa 39... [:D]
RE: Russian NM - A tale of 2 games
Posted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 4:42 pm
by Harrybanana
ORIGINAL: ncc1701e
The Russian army experience is at 36% since it is now starting at 30% only.
I didn't understand the rationale for lowering it.
Anyhow, I have taken casualties. I am replacing them 200PP to 250PP per turn. But, so far, most of my units are barely at 32% experience.
I have Anti-Tank 1941 and Assault 1941 discovered since beginning of 1941.
Most of my received armies (the one forming by default in the Deployment window) are not even upgrading and are still at Assault 1939 or Anti-Tank 1939 (when I change the advancement).
I have bought 4 armies (Anti-Tank 1941) in April when Barbarossa started.
I have still Infantry Rifle Corps at Anti-Tank 1940 but at 30% experience. Few of them converted to half armies.
All my tank / mechanized corps are at Heavy Armor 1941 but are pushed like twigs.
And, I have seven forming armies that are not coming...
Is the Red Army strong enough for you?
I think you are doing OK; not great, but not disastrous yet either. How close are you to 42 Heavy Armour tech? If you have maximized research you should be close by August 42. How many armour and mechanized do you have? How many have been destroyed? What is the situation in Africa? Where did the UK invade in the summer of 41?