Matrix Games Forums

My experience is that planes and airships spot within their normal spotting range when flying to attack a target. However, in a recent game, one of my planes flew directly over an enemy ship without spotting it while en route attack a target. The only thing I can think of that might explain why the spotting did not happen was that the target was a sub which dove to escape damage from the attack. But I don't see why the sub diving would make any difference in terms of spotting other ships. Any suggestions as to what might have produced this result?

"Enemy ship" you did not spot being a unmissable surface ship or a sub or a silentmode sub?
I believe "flyover" just uncovers surface ships, not subs and maybe not mines. But this should be easily testable, if i am mistaken.

ORIGINAL: katanatan

"Enemy ship" you did not spot being a unmissable surface ship or a sub or a silentmode sub?
I believe "flyover" just uncovers surface ships, not subs and maybe not mines. But this should be easily testable, if i am mistaken.

The enemy ship I flew over which but was not spotted was a destroyer. But even if it was a sub in silent mode or a mine, fly-over by any kind of plane should have revealed it. I am still puzzled by this.

wAS this in the Adriatic, per chance..in our match? [:D]

Indeed it was. In fact, you can see what happened by watching Turn 35 of our match on your You Tube Channel (insert plug here for Old Crow Balthazor's Strategic Arcana!). It begins with a replay of my move for October 21, 1916. Around the 2:00 mark in the turn, when the replay shifts to the Adriatic, you can see a German sub attacking a French dreadnought and then disappearing. Then a German recon bomber flies from Albania to attack a nearby French sub. The sub dives. When I made this move, the recon bomber did not reveal any ships in the hexes around the French sub. So, I moved the German sub from its safe harbour in port one hex into the Adriatic, expecting to bump into the sub that had dived. Instead, I bumped into an unseen Italian destroyer. This surprise combat cost the German sub 2 strength points and all its remaining action points. In your subsequent move (for November 4) you then beat up the sub with destroyers and light cruisers and surrounded it.

Admittedly, taking my sub out of port to look for your sub which had dived was not a very smart move. But I would not have done it if I could see that there was an enemy destroyer in my path. And looking again at the replay in your YouTube channel I can see once again that the recon bomber flew in a line adjacent to the Italian destroyer - and thus it should have been spotted, thus eliminating the risk of a surprise combat.

Hmmmm..Indeed. Never noticed that. Well, we have a recording to review at least for others to interpret.[:)]
So here's a link to this episode. The fracas starts just before the 2 minute mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga9smmJkpZU&t=28s

Hi Bill - there is definitely a glitch here. I tried a hotseat test and was able to get the same result. I lined up two Entente subs and a destroyer in the Adriatic and had German maritime bomber fly over them to attack a target. If the target was a destroyer, the subs that were flown over were spotted. If the target was a sub which took a hit, the other sub which the bomber flew over was spotted. But if the target was a sub which dove when attacked, then a sub which the bomber flew over remained unspotted. I recommend that you look into this for the next patch.

Michael

Do both the spotter and the "should have been spotted" ships belong to Majors that are at war with each other?

ORIGINAL: BillRunacre

Do both the spotter and the "should have been spotted" ships belong to Majors that are at war with each other?

Yes they were, both in the PBEM game where I first noticed this and then in my recent hotseat test. The game-turns for both were in late 1916, so all the Entente Majors (except the USA) had entered the war and were contesting the Adriatic with the Central Powers.

I took a quick look and this likely has nothing to do with the sub diving here as the WWI game is treated a bit differently when it comes to air unit attacks, and the typical automatic recon that is also associated with air units, e.g. as you would normally find in our other WWII games.

For WWI, only Recon Bombers, Maritime Bombers and Airships will attack and recon at the same time. The other air units, whether it is a Fighter, or Heavy/Ground Bomber, will not. This is the same for these air attacks whether at sea or on land.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

I took a quick look and this likely has nothing to do with the sub diving here as the WWI game is treated a bit differently when it comes to air unit attacks, and the typical automatic recon that is also associated with air units, e.g. as you would normally find in our other WWII games.

For WWI, only Recon Bombers, Maritime Bombers and Airships will attack and recon at the same time. The other air units, whether it is a Fighter, or Heavy/Ground Bomber, will not. This is the same for these air attacks whether at sea or on land.

Hope this helps,
Hubert

Hi Hubert - it is good to understand more about the mechanics of the game. But in this case, your comment above does not explain the spotting glitch. In my PBEM game (as you can see by looking at the replay in the YouTube clip mentioned above) it was a Recon Bomber that failed to spot an Italian destroyer which it flew over. In my subsequent hot seat test, I used a Maritime Bomber to attack a sub and the same spotting failure occurred.

Cheers,

Michael

I've tried testing this out but my Recon Bombers have been spotting everything they should, so it is a bit of a puzzle.

Michael, do you have a saved file/test campaign where it is repeatable?

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the follow up and further descriptions of the error, I see the issue now, consider this fixed for the next update [:)]

Hubert

Hi Hubert - thanks for checking that out and committing to fixing it. Much appreciated!

Michael

Our pleasure [:)]