Is this still a valid house rule for WITPAE?
Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:01 am
No Corsair's allowed on US CV's until 1/44.
What's your Strategy?
https://forums.matrixgames.com:443/
ORIGINAL: btd64
Never heard of that one. What would be the bases for it?....GP
Well, yes: [8|]ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Well, due the bad landing characteristics of the early Corsairs - restricted forward visibility and strong tendency to bounce - plus disapproving the additional logistical strain to support different fighter types - the USN did not accept Corsairs on carriers. Only when the bounce problem got fixed and a new landing approach in an arc instead of going straight ahead pioneered by the Brits got adopted, the USN finally accepted the Corsair for carrier operations - that was in April 1944. The first operational carrier units flying Corsairs entered combat only in December 1944. But yes, let the Allies have ahistorical capabilities but reign-in the Japanese, because the Allies need a boost so much more, having only about 10 times the war making capabilities of their enemy... [8|]
ORIGINAL: witpqs
Well, yes: [8|]ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Well, due the bad landing characteristics of the early Corsairs - restricted forward visibility and strong tendency to bounce - plus disapproving the additional logistical strain to support different fighter types - the USN did not accept Corsairs on carriers. Only when the bounce problem got fixed and a new landing approach in an arc instead of going straight ahead pioneered by the Brits got adopted, the USN finally accepted the Corsair for carrier operations - that was in April 1944. The first operational carrier units flying Corsairs entered combat only in December 1944. But yes, let the Allies have ahistorical capabilities but reign-in the Japanese, because the Allies need a boost so much more, having only about 10 times the war making capabilities of their enemy... [8|]
It's a game, and as part of the game the Japan player gets the ability to massively increase production above historical levels and the ability to greatly accelerate the availability of key airframes.
ORIGINAL: witpqs
It's a game, and as part of the game the Japan player gets the ability to massively increase production above historical levels and the ability to greatly accelerate the availability of key airframes.
ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
ORIGINAL: witpqs
It's a game, and as part of the game the Japan player gets the ability to massively increase production above historical levels and the ability to greatly accelerate the availability of key airframes.
Yup, and without that ability even more games would end in 1942/43 with the Japanese player admitting defeat or simply quitting, wouldn't they?
Oh! I remember about this rule. That was 11 years ago. When I played the first game. [:D] But even then it was rare among us. It probably doesn't work anymore [:D]ORIGINAL: Tanaka
No Corsair's allowed on US CV's until 1/44.
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
ORIGINAL: witpqs
It's a game, and as part of the game the Japan player gets the ability to massively increase production above historical levels and the ability to greatly accelerate the availability of key airframes.
Yup, and without that ability even more games would end in 1942/43 with the Japanese player admitting defeat or simply quitting, wouldn't they?
Is that what you would do or would you modify your game play? [&:]
So you interpret that one thing, which can (depending upon game) balance/partly balance what I mentioned, as being responsible for Japan player resignations in 1942/43, even though a carrier capable version of the Corsair does not arrive until late '43. Your mileage and mine do vary. Peace.ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
ORIGINAL: witpqs
It's a game, and as part of the game the Japan player gets the ability to massively increase production above historical levels and the ability to greatly accelerate the availability of key airframes.
Yup, and without that ability even more games would end in 1942/43 with the Japanese player admitting defeat or simply quitting, wouldn't they?
ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
ORIGINAL: RangerJoe
ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
Yup, and without that ability even more games would end in 1942/43 with the Japanese player admitting defeat or simply quitting, wouldn't they?
Is that what you would do or would you modify your game play? [&:]
I would never quit (i.e. simply disappear) from a game, but I see no problem in admitting defeat when the means for offering resistance have been largely exhausted and the game becomes a dull enduring of ever increasing Allies hammer blows without the slightest chance to inflict losses and to hit back from time to time. It is the ability to advance R&D and airframe production that gives the Japanese player a chance to rest remotely competitive and retain a motivation to play a bit longer.
Not sure how I would modify my game play - what else can you modify when the ability to modify airframe production is taken away? With HI and supplies NOT being spent on airframe R&D and production, you can build shipyards to speed-up ship production (but not create more ships) and factories to build more armament and vehicle points (but not create more ground units) - so game play may change to more ship losses and more destroyed ground devices from Allied bombings you cannot defend against with the limited numbers of (mainly) Oscars and Zeros you will be forced to fly. Heck, it is already difficult enough to resist the Allied juggernaut WITH the ability to modify airframe production.
Now, that being said, I'm actually in favor of reigning-in Japanese airframe R&D and production because for a good player it is easy to "abuse" the ahistorical capabilities given in the game. BUT reigning-in the Japanese only if the ahistorical capabilities of the Allies are being reigned-in as well - otherwise the game becomes even more asymetrical as it already is.
ORIGINAL: Nomad
The F4U-1 did not have a tail hook and is never a carrier capable aircraft. All the others after that are, the F4U-1A, etc.
ORIGINAL: Leandros
ORIGINAL: Nomad
The F4U-1 did not have a tail hook and is never a carrier capable aircraft. All the others after that are, the F4U-1A, etc.
Well, I suppose that is why the game denies it onboard...[;)].. so it's not a "home" rule...?
Fred
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ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Frankly, I couldn't possibly find this to be more comical.
"the means for offering resistance have been largely exhausted and the game becomes a dull enduring of ever increasing Allies hammer blows without the slightest chance to inflict losses and to hit back from time to time."
Substitute 'Japanese' for 'Allies' and you have an apt description of the first 18 months of the game.
Why is it that only the Allied player is expected to endure this, while the Japanese always seem to want a free pass to quit as soon as they have to endure what the Allies have already endured?
It isn't just the material things that are ahistoric for Japan. Complete cooperation between IJN and IJA is a real help to the Japanese side. And a pilot training program that works is another plus they did not have.ORIGINAL: DesertWolf101
ORIGINAL: HansBolter
Frankly, I couldn't possibly find this to be more comical.
"the means for offering resistance have been largely exhausted and the game becomes a dull enduring of ever increasing Allies hammer blows without the slightest chance to inflict losses and to hit back from time to time."
Substitute 'Japanese' for 'Allies' and you have an apt description of the first 18 months of the game.
Why is it that only the Allied player is expected to endure this, while the Japanese always seem to want a free pass to quit as soon as they have to endure what the Allies have already endured?
Hans, I don't find this comparison to be true at all.
Now full disclosure, I have not yet been able to play as Japan in the last two years of the war so I can't really say how bad the situation for the Empire really is during that time. But in terms of the Allies being described in the manner above for the first 18 months of the war? No way! In all 4-5 games that I have played as the Allies I have found ample assets and means to defeat the Japanese player in less than 6 months. I think there is a clear reason why there is a real struggle to find people willing to play Japan on the opponents page. Granted the production and R&D system in the game is clearly ahistorical, but given two players of equal skill, I think it's undeniable that the Allied side is far easier to play over the length of the game. '
Have you tried playing playing as the Japanese in a PBEM? What are your experiences with this?