Matrix Games Forums

I RECENTLY PLAYED A FEW GAMES WHERE THE BATTLE DATES [10/43] WERE APPROXIMATELY THE SAME AND I WAS THE NAZIS.
AND AS ALWAYS HAPPENS THE BIGGEST BADDEST UNITS GOT BROKEN DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE IN A FORREST FACING BACKWARDS OR THE LIKE[YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!].
I NOTICED THE FOLLOWING.IF A CREW TRIES TO FIX IT BUY ITSELF IT WILL TAKE FOREVER.
IF A CREW IS WITH INFANTRY SUPPORT IN THE SAME HEX IT TENDS TO QUICKEN THE REPAIR ESPECIALLY IF THAT AFV WAS CARRYING THAT INFANTRY UNIT THAT IT UNLOADED,THUS GETTING THAT AFV INTO SOME USEFUL COMBAT TIME.
WHEN THE AFV UNIT HAD ENGINEERS AS PER ABOVE ,VIOLA!READY TO GO IN APPROX 5 TURNS,IN SIGHT OF ITS 0 UNIT EVEN QUICKER![ALL THE ABOVE MODELS BASED UPON OUT OF LOS OF ENEMY].
NOW AM I IMAGINING THINGS OR HAVE YOU NOTICED ANYTHING SIMMILAR WITH OTHER CLASSES OF VEHICLES OR EVEN THE EFFECTS OF TERRAIN . MOTHER

I've never thought about this and I think also the game manual doesn't mention anything about such a thing.

But that's an interesting observation, maybe the wiser guys have an answer to the question.

Couldn't say I've ever tried it that way. Usually my grunts are up closer to the action and I just let the afv crew do what they can.

I hope this is true

What, I can't hear anything anymore with all this yelling!!!!

Originally posted by gmenfan
What, I can't hear anything anymore with all this yelling!!!!

hehe

I've tried running my A0 adjacent to the immobilized vehicle. I can't say for sure that this always helps, but it seems that they get repaired faster with the A0 nearby. Several times the repair occurred immediately after the A0 arrived. Other times, the repair was never accomplished even after many turns 'helping'.

It's certainly not a tactic I count on, except in extreme desperation. (though I'm in that situation often enough. :rolleyes: )

MOTHER wrote:I RECENTLY PLAYED A FEW GAMES WHERE THE BATTLE DATES [10/43] WERE APPROXIMATELY THE SAME AND I WAS THE NAZIS.
AND AS ALWAYS HAPPENS THE BIGGEST BADDEST UNITS GOT BROKEN DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE IN A FORREST FACING BACKWARDS OR THE LIKE[YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!].
I NOTICED THE FOLLOWING.IF A CREW TRIES TO FIX IT BUY ITSELF IT WILL TAKE FOREVER.
IF A CREW IS WITH INFANTRY SUPPORT IN THE SAME HEX IT TENDS TO QUICKEN THE REPAIR ESPECIALLY IF THAT AFV WAS CARRYING THAT INFANTRY UNIT THAT IT UNLOADED,THUS GETTING THAT AFV INTO SOME USEFUL COMBAT TIME.
WHEN THE AFV UNIT HAD ENGINEERS AS PER ABOVE ,VIOLA!READY TO GO IN APPROX 5 TURNS,IN SIGHT OF ITS 0 UNIT EVEN QUICKER![ALL THE ABOVE MODELS BASED UPON OUT OF LOS OF ENEMY].
NOW AM I IMAGINING THINGS OR HAVE YOU NOTICED ANYTHING SIMMILAR WITH OTHER CLASSES OF VEHICLES OR EVEN THE EFFECTS OF TERRAIN . MOTHER

I've never noticed this but will have to try it. Could make a difference since I try to have inf units nearby anyway.

However, it does make sense on all counts when you think about it.

Having more infantry units in the same hex means that the tank crew can concentrate on working on the repair instead of having to worry about being jumped on by a roving enemy unit.

Also, having more bodies around means more muscles. Ever thought about how heavy steel treads must be to pull through the bogeys to make a repair?

Having engineers in the same hex would be another bonus as the engineers would likely have more mechanical expertise than the average grunt and probably also have some specialized tools.

Having an officer in the area would be even more of a benefit as officers would have more training and also have the authority and drive to tell the crew to get to work instead of just making tea waiting for the battle to end.

I am starting to believe that having an infantry unit in the hex does help...maybe it's wishful thinking...but when I have 2 units breakdown and have a squad to put in one hex and not the other...the unit with "company" seems to quite frequently repair after 5-6 turns...where as the other might not at all.

I haven't tried engineers versus regular infantry...but I think there might be something to it. Either that or I've been the victim of circumstance! nyuck nyuck nyuck!!! lmao

My solution has been just to turn that option off! :p I find it more annoying than anything else. Breakdowns just seem far too frequent otherwise.

A thought or two about breakdowns...

I think the realism it adds is worth it, despite the frustration it causes. In a game vs. Viking (as if that isn't frustrating enough ) I had NO KIDDING 9 units break down, motorcycles, gun trucks, etc. Talk about getting PO'd!

Well, I've since developed a theory as to why it happens. And I'd appreciate some of the more knowledgable players out there adding their input.

Speed and terrain.

I've found that these two things are most likely IME to produce breakdowns. I've found that if I move a vehicle it's MAXIMUM hexes allowed, the chance that it'll break down is significantly increased. And here's another though along those lines. If you click out at a distance that is that unit's maximum move for that turn (for example, clicking once at the full 8 hexes away to move your AFV) the breakdown may occur after only two hexes. This is nothing more than speculation, but I think that I've had better luck clicking one hex at a time, even if I'm planning on moving that unit 3/4 of it's full move or more. Anyone out there experience this/do this? I'm relatively sure (but again based on no hard facts, just a bunch of voodoo calculations and spider sense) that if you travel less than 3/4 your full move per turn, that your chance for a breakdown is significantly decreased.

And just like river/water hexes have a chance to bog down vehicles passing through them, I think that rough, forest, and other high movement cost types of terrain (just can't think of the others) significantly increase your chances for a breakdown. All of which is actually realistic. Turning a tracked AFV in seriously rocky terrain is a good way to throw a track IME. Now, one guy's motorcycle getting a stick in its spokes and stopping the other 9 is somewhat, ahem, less-than-realistic. But the extra coding to split motorcycles into their own "more realistic" class is doubtless more trouble than it's worth. I've moved several types of vehicles a few hexes into rough terrain or heavy woods and instantly suffered a breakdown. The only times I've suffered a breakdown on regular roads was when I was moving a vehicle at its maximum speed.

Can anyone confirm/deny/elaborate on the two theories above?

Thanks in advance.

~Vath

I CAN USE CAPS LOCK TOO

but it would be better not to use it...

I can confirm observation about rough terrain. That include hill slopes too. I think 80% of all my breakdowns were in rough terrain. Also some units (KV-2) more prone to breakdown then others .KV-2 very slow BTW, so if speed a factor it's relative to maximum speed. As my core force getting expiriense I seems getting less and less breakdowns even for KV-2.

The manual specifically says something about speed and liklihood of breakdowns. Just look it up. IIRC, it's anything over 50% of your max speed and you are risking breakdowns.

Terrain type is definitely a factor. See the attached table to show you where NOT to go driving at full speed.

Woah!

Big THANK YOU to RB! Almost makes up for that ammo dump you just hit. Almost .

Anyway, I hadn't thought of a third factor mentioned above, that of experience.

Do you know of any references to or personal experiences that could confirm/dismiss unit experience as a factor in breakdowns?

Someone needs to run some tests

Vathailos wrote:Do you know of any references to or personal experiences that could confirm/dismiss unit experience as a factor in breakdowns?

No, but experience/troop quality sure plays a factor in repairing immobilizations. If I get an immobilized US or German unit, I figure it's just a matter of time until they repair. If it's a Russian or Italian unit, I pretty much don't count of them getting back into the game at all.

As for experience playing a factor in breakdowns, I can only compare to my elite units in MCLV. Those units aren't breaking down very much, but neither are the support units I'm given for each scenario. I think the reduction in breakdowns you see with elite units could be more a factor of YOUR use of them than the game's treatment of them. i.e. I'm not likely to go dashing around with my elite Stugs and Sdkfzs so they aren't likely to get stuck anywhere in the first place are they?