Matrix Games Forums

Hi all,

I still maintain position that "Naval Search" attack with sequence "sight" ->
"identify" -> "attack" is unstoppable and 100% unrealistic...


Today in one of my PBEMs my worthy opponent managed to hit my TK ship that
was docked in port size 9 with plenty of AAA units and inside big TF (with good
AAA rating) and despite fact that I had 120+ well rested and extremely
experienced fighters in air for CAP (this is verifiable since his recon
aircraft were engaged by this force).

Imagine that he send single (or even few) aircraft on regular "Naval Attack"
against my defence... the result would be total slaughter of his bomber(s)...

So... why does UV differentiate this?

Why for one mission type this is impossible thing and for other regular
occurrence?


IMHO, this is 100% unrealistic and totally impossible... it is bug and nothing
else... ((


Matrix/2By3 please please do something about this !!!


Leo "Apollo11"

Well I don’t know about you but I routinely shoot down planes that are on naval search. I think only CAP engages search planes because they don’t fly within range of AA guns. The reason they aren’t shot down as often as bombing missions is because they are harder to spot and don’t have to fly right over the base or task force to achieve their mission.

In real life the search plane that crippled the American aircraft carrier Franklin was not even spotted until the Franklin was one huge fireball. Also, the Japanese were unable to shoot down the single B-29 that flew into Hiroshima every day to get a weather report. They did this every day for a couple weeks so the Japanese would be less likely to scramble and attack the bomber that would eventually be carrying the atomic bomb.

Search-->attack is not unstoppable. I guess you have just been unlucky. I would not call it a bug.

Yamamoto

Hi all,

I see your points and those are all very valid ones... but (there is always
but)...


There is always "problem" of invulnerability of 4 and 2 engine allied level
bombers.

If you put enough of those (as Allies) on "Naval Search" alone you would get
many many hits on enemy ships without almost any danger.


Example:

In PBEM this happened my worthy opponent hit numerous barges (perhaps close to
25+) this way while I never hit, as equivalent, his small craft like PTs. And
every day I see, detect and identify them with my "Naval Search" aircraft.

I did hit once his MSW at the very beginning of PBEM (and perhaps one other
ship) but it survived just OK and there was no serious CAP over that TF.

His level bombers attack despite AAA on land (that protect harbour and docked
ships), despite AAA in TFs and despite heavy CAP/LRCAP (and I really mean
heavy - this hit TK had 120+ well rested and experienced CAP fighters in air).

Why this 20:1 advantage for Allies?

My Betty/Nell squadrons are all 95+ EXP and still nothing...


You must admit that, at least, there is "something fishy here" and that, IMHO,
Allied player is clearly in advantage...



Leo "Apollo11"

Originally posted by Apollo11

You must admit that, at least, there is "something fishy here" and that, IMHO,
Allied player is clearly in advantage...
Leo "Apollo11"

And Allied player *should* be in advantage.

Allies used "proper bombers" for partols (B24, B17...). Japs used mostly flying boats like Mavis and Emily.

Patrol planes carry "extended range" payload - that's 6 bombs for B17, 8 (!!) for B24, 3 for Mitchell, and only 2 bombs for Betty.

More bombs - better chance to hit something.

Playing as IJN I have had like 5-6 warships (!! - not APs) hit by bombers on patrol in the last 2-3 turns in one of my PBEMs. I can live with that and so should you, IMO.

History of 5th Air force is full of examples of solo B17 or B24 on patrol attacking shipping somewhere. (this history is available somewhere on the net so check it out) I don't know whether those attacks were carried out against 50+ CAP or not, but still, there it is... solo patrol bomber attacks ARE very historic.

Finally, Apollo I really really think you go too far with your complaints. Whenever a single bomb or torpedo hits any of your ships in our game I can be sure to find your complaining post on the Matrix boards / This, of course, is your god given right, but sometimes it's really getting ridicoulous. I mean - hey? Come on... let just ONE of my bombs explode without you complaining of a bug, for a change It ruins the enjoyment of the game.

In the last 100+ turns in our game NONE of my patrol bombers hit anything, now one of them hits your TK and you make it seem like it's regular occurence, which, quite simply, it is not. It happened once in, like 100-150 turns in this game. And in this same game you had patrol bomber hits by Bettys, even Emilys, and against CAP too, so, what's the problem?

O.

Hi all,

Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko

And Allied player *should* be in advantage.

Allies used "proper bombers" for partols (B24, B17...). Japs used mostly
flying boats like Mavis and Emily.

Why?

There is nothing to stop Japanese player to use his Betty/Nell bombers for
"Naval SearcH" in UV.

As Japanese you can have hundreds of aircraft on "Naval Search" if you choose
so.

Why don't they hit anything (they even have much better range than Allied
planes)?

Patrol planes carry "extended range" payload - that's 6 bombs for B17, 8
(!!) for B24, 3 for Mitchell, and only 2 bombs for Betty.
More bombs - better chance to hit something.

Playing as IJN I have had like 5-6 warships (!! - not APs) hit by bombers on
patrol in the last 2-3 turns in one of my PBEMs. I can live with that and so
should you, IMO.

I have nothing against aircraft hitting _UNESCORTED_, _ALONE_ and _NON_ CAPed_
ships. Nothing at all.

What I am saying here (and what I was saying here for long times) is that is
it 100% ridiculous that CAP/LRCAP, AAA, ship AAA can't stop "Naval Search"
attack routine "Sight" -> "Identify" -> "Attack".

History of 5th Air force is full of examples of solo B17 or B24 on patrol
attacking shipping somewhere. (this history is available somewhere on the net
so check it out) I don't know whether those attacks were carried out against
50+ CAP or not, but still, there it is... solo patrol bomber attacks ARE very
historic.

I agree.

But those were _UNESCORTED_, _ALONE_ and _NON_ CAPed_ ships.

Finally, Apollo I really really think you go too far with your complaints.
Whenever a single bomb or torpedo hits any of your ships in our game I can be
sure to find your complaining post on the Matrix boards / This, of course,
is your god given right, but sometimes it's really getting ridicoulous. I mean
- hey? Come on... let just ONE of my bombs explode without you complaining of
a bug, for a change It ruins the enjoyment of the game.

Oleg, please think straight...

This is old old thing I've (and many others) have been writing about this for
months and months.

Just read other similar threads.

Also I don't remember me (and other people) complaining to you when you were
writing furious letters complaining about the "Coastwatchers" (example of your
"pet peeve").

In the last 100+ turns in our game NONE of my patrol bombers hit anything, now
one of them hits your TK and you make it seem like it's regular occurence,
which, quite simply, it is not. It happened once in, like 100-150 turns in
this game. And in this same game you had patrol bomber hits by Bettys, even
Emilys, and against CAP too, so, what's the problem?

Oleg you have very short memory...

And what about all those AGs hit at extreme range with your aircraft?

Dozens and dozens of 15 meter long craft (50 feet) hit at hundreds of miles away
from your bases...

Almost every turn some of my barges get hit.

Please note that I even tried LRCAPing my AG TFs but it never helped.

The "Naval Search" routine with "Sight" -> "Identify" -> "Attack" is
unstoppable.

This is UV fact...


Leo "Apollo11"