Matrix Games Forums

With all the technology in the year 2021, reloads should be fixed.
There are dudes reloading all the time.

1) Ever play a game where your opponent keeps getting Diplo hits every turn in a row, WHILE you have max Diplo in same country. Players disconnect at the end of turn.
2) Ever play a game where a dude NEVER makes a bad move? Like all the land combinations in Russia. Come on man.
3) Ever play a game where some of these "Super players" move their Carrier combo strikes around Denmark or Italy to make a masterpiece move.
4) Does anyone make a bad move?

Technology needs to fix the Reloading.

a) Don't give me the "don't play them crap". Is it my job to accuse or false accuse an opponent of reloading. That's not my job. Technology should do that.
b) If there was proper Reloading stoppage, then I won't falsely accuse anyone either.

Dudes are cheating. Might as well Reload, some of these moves are a joke.

Interesting thoughts

Technically, it should be fairly easy to at least publish the number of downloads and saves (uploads) of each turn

That way suspicious patterns would stand out

I must say it never occurred to me that this could be a deliberate tactic. I've had 2 occasions where my internet has gone down during a turn & I've had to replay it. And I can recall 2 occasions where my opponents reported a similar problem. But in 20+ games that isn't a pattern.

If the stats are available to show that someone is abusing this then I agree - let's have them please. Honesty & transparency has to be a good thing.

Agreed. I think this is as much about taking care of and promoting a healthy gaming community as it is about the reputation of the game.

I've just never been able to figure out how someone might feel rewarded if they are playing a game and they cheat. It's like, what is going on in that head? Do they find it a rewarding game when doing that? I guess so, and that opens up a whole can of worms.

I believe matrix/slitherine servers do track the number of downloads/uploads of saves and if they find you are downloading more than uploading then they flag your account and send you warnings. So unless that isn't true then not sure how someone would be consistently cheating.

Facts (according to me)

1) Yes, Matrix Games tracks downloads
2) Yes, there are Email - Server warnings. I've tested it. It's probably a combination of "Time" & "Quantity". Because sh-t happens, Internet glitch, server down, whatever. I reloaded tons of times. I've tested it. Reload away, nothing gonna stop you.
3) Matrix Games ain't gonna do squat about warnings/emails, unless you bitch. Then you have accused somebody and good chance, could be a false accusation.
4) The server side control of gaming, is not up to Hubert Cater. He has access to the numbers, but his game is hosted thru Matrix.

Unacceptable solutions:

a) I reject the idea "just play ppl you trust". I get the sentiment that we are all one jolly community. But get real, be honest. Have you ever reloaded? Have you ever gotten turns like "WTF". How is this clown getting Spain/Turkey Diplo hits 3 f-king turns in a row, when I have Allied Max. Casino odds, really. How am I suppose to determine a cheater vs good player vs my gut feeling.
b) The best player in SC-1/SC-2 was Terif. This dude never made a bad move, primarily he was an air strategy guy. Later found out, this German douchebag was reloading. The file was right in some folder. Reload away, no tracing. His answer, "Cheating, everyone does it, just like Diablo-2 game".

Solution:
How about Ian or whoever owns this site, fix the f-ing thing. Instead of worrying about political correct forums, that you cannot say Jap, cannot call (He/Him/Its/Tranny), wow, he said no-Vax. This isn't FaceBook or Meta-Book, I get that, limit resources. How about players can "see" somehow the downloads. If the download count is the measure of Truth. Let players know the download count. Simple, done. Let the game show #downloads when you connect. Give me a warning.

Conclusion: I know there are better players than me. I'm average or middle of the pack. I don't want to accuse people of something that they haven't done, just because they are better. I will praise you, kicking my ass with a sweet move. At same time, I have common sense, there's no way some of these turns are legit. There are some "big rolls" too which are important. Feels like I'm on the ass end too much of the time. We could also play, reload all you want.

Thanks for you attention & comments.
-Legend

I am still pretty inexperienced with MP (had always been a vs. AI guy until recently, but have become hooked to vs. human games-thanks OCB!), but I was shocked to find out that the game load screen does NOT have a reload counter. Seems like a simple thing to add; right now we have to rely on the honesty of our opponent (I lost 2 games in our most recent match, 1 from a power failure one from a glitching game crash).

That's a sharp idea, actually.

ORIGINAL: redrum68
I believe matrix/slitherine servers do track the number of downloads/uploads of saves and if they find you are downloading more than uploading then they flag your account and send you warnings

This may be true but if the criteria for phony is the ratio then can't you just save a lot to make it look legit?

I've played games where I was saving and loading a ton every turn (for a variety of reasons ranging from time availability to turn complexity to testing out some things in hotseat) and I've had games where I basically just load once every turn. So I'm not sure any count of saves and loads really proves anything (unless there are like double digit reloads). That being said, showing the reload count would be better than nothing.

I didn't realize you can reload after the tech/diplo phase. That sounds pretty demoralizing to go against.

This may be true but if the criteria for phony is the ratio then can't you just save a lot to make it look legit?

I've played games where I was saving and loading a ton every turn (for a variety of reasons ranging from time availability to turn complexity to testing out some things in hotseat) and I've had games where I basically just load once every turn. So I'm not sure any count of saves and loads really proves anything (unless there are like double digit reloads). That being said, showing the reload count would be better than nothing.

I didn't realize you can reload after the tech/diplo phase. That sounds pretty demoralizing to go against.

Not sure exactly what they do or don't track or what ratio gets flagged. I think they keep that secret to avoid people knowing how to abuse it though doesn't potentially stop people from figuring it out. In theory, "saving" shouldn't have any impact just the loading and the "end turn" or "quit". If you have more loads then you have "end turn" + "quit" that means you are reloading without submitting your progress which could allow you to cheat.

I was chatting with Hubert earlier and he pointed me towards this thread.

redrum68 is right in that we track the number of downloads/uploads. Anything that exceeds the acceptable ratio gets flagged and we reach out to the user in question. As noted above, there can be many reasons for this, not all of them nefarious. This solves most problems. Repeat offenders are permabanned. This also solves problems.

No one would claim the system is perfect, but it seems to work well enough overall in our other games. Trying to stay on top of cheaters is by its very nature somewhat whack-a-mole.

PvP is supposed to be a fun thing and we want to keep it that way. There will be no public naming and shaming of players, that seldom ends well. If there is a game where you feel the other player is cheating, then DM me here, or email our Customer Support team and we will look into it and take appropriate action. We take the issue of cheating seriously, we will do what we can to prevent it, sadly that that may sometimes be imperfect.

I disagree.

1) People play competitively. Obviously this isn't online Poker, where money is involved. But players are into rankings. So PvP isn't this "Glee Club of Happiness", especially when investing lots of time in a game.
2) It doesn't take a huge amount of #downloads to cheat. So nothing can ever be proved with your system. One turn of free scouting, huge. One replay of results, can pop open an entire front (North Africa, Key City, Long Range landing)
3) Not about shaming or calling out the sinner with pitchforks and torches. It's about believing the results of a turn.

SOLUTION:

Just include, in the game (or by turn even better), if it was reloaded. Simple enough.
If you want to hide the download(s), I don't understand why. This isn't a National Defense issue or gonna hurt the World's Carbon Count. Just put the #inside the turn received. Simple programming, it's an Integer. Why go half-ass. Fix it.
With all this technology, tracking, and other Big Brother stuff, I'm not asking much.

Unto the people that reload, blow me. I know you cheat. Just make a simple call, to that server download value. It ain't Web 4.0 type programming.

Suspicious Minds,
-EJR

We're caught in a trap
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much, baby
Why can't you see
What you're doing to me
When you don't believe a word I say?
We can't go on together
With suspicious minds (suspicious minds)
And we can't build our dreams
On suspicious minds
So if an old friend I know
Stops by to say hello
Would I still see suspicion in your eyes?
Here we go again
Asking where I've been
You can't see the tears are real, I'm crying
(Yes I'm crying)
We can't go on together
With suspicious minds (suspicious minds)
And we can't build our dreams
On suspicious minds
Oh, let our love survive
I'll dry the tears from your eyes
Let's don't let a good thing die
When honey, you know I've never lied to you
Mmm, yeah, yeah
We're caught in a trap
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much, baby
Why can't you see
What you're doing to me
When you don't believe a word I say?
Well, don't you know I'm caught in a trap?
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much, baby
Well, don't you know I'm caught in a trap?
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much, baby
Well, don't you know I'm caught in a trap?
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much, baby
Well, don't you know I'm caught in a trap?
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much, baby
Well, don't you know I'm caught in a trap?
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much, baby
Well, don't you know I'm caught in a trap?
I can't walk out
Because I love you too much, baby
Well, don't you know I'm caught in a trap?

Matrix reload

the blue pill for the staff

the red pill for players

if we do sometimes playing against the AI (control alt supr) when the AI cheats, what a human can do,i know people the can take the red pill for hours charging hundred times.

Zeckke wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:09 am Matrix reload

the blue pill for the staff

the red pill for players

if we do sometimes playing against the AI (control alt supr) when the AI cheats, what a human can do,i know people the can take the red pill for hours charging hundred times.

Never saw the movie, but I hear you.

There are two types of people. Those they "get it", and those who "don't".

White Onto the Harvest,
-Legend

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 1:19 pm

Zeckke wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:09 am Matrix reload

the blue pill for the staff

the red pill for players

if we do sometimes playing against the AI (control alt supr) when the AI cheats, what a human can do,i know people the can take the red pill for hours charging hundred times.

Never saw the movie, but I hear you.

There are two types of people. Those they "get it", and those who "don't".

White Onto the Harvest,
-Legend

Buah¡ dont you miss anything; is about cannibalism they need to fight with machines to put meet into their minds

just to say that dont repeat turns against AI; its even worst¡

Lol, that's a no brainer, buddy. Computer programs (Dominion) cheat. Don't you think the Devil knows that. I've been doing my gaming Face-2-Face. I love the smell of cardboard in the morning, the sound of dice rolling & smacktalk feet away.

The Sheep know the Shepherd's voice, and they will not follow a stranger,
-Legend

ElvisJJonesRambo wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:30 pm Lol, that's a no brainer, buddy. Computer programs (Dominion) cheat. Don't you think the Devil knows that. I've been doing my gaming Face-2-Face. I love the smell of cardboard in the morning, the sound of dice rolling & smacktalk feet away.

The Sheep know the Shepherd's voice, and they will not follow a stranger,
-Legend

All right, as far as i remenber the AI cheats (or improve as is this case on SCWWII) especially the movements.

Zeckke wrote: Thu Jun 16, 2022 5:09 am Matrix reload

the blue pill for the staff

the red pill for players

if we do sometimes playing against the AI (control alt supr) when the AI cheats, what a human can do,i know people the can take the red pill for hours charging hundred times.

OMG QUIT CRYING ALREADY!!!!

Reviving this old thread because of how much of a problem this is to online MP games. The simple ability to just scout out the map, especially the naval sea areas, take a photo of the screen with your phone to know exactly where everything is, and then quit and reload to get the jump on everything has ruined this game for me. Knowing they you are at a massive disadvantage if your opponent is cheating every turn like this and you are not has ruined this game for me. Very disappointed this has not been resolved yet. Its a shame because this is a great game. I'm sure the SC WW1 game and SC Civil War are equally as good but I would NEVER buy them until the cheating issue is fixed. Please fix this issue.

Brian72 wrote: Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:11 am Reviving this old thread because of how much of a problem this is to online MP games. The simple ability to just scout out the map, especially the naval sea areas, take a photo of the screen with your phone to know exactly where everything is, and then quit and reload to get the jump on everything has ruined this game for me. Knowing they you are at a massive disadvantage if your opponent is cheating every turn like this and you are not has ruined this game for me. Very disappointed this has not been resolved yet. Its a shame because this is a great game. I'm sure the SC WW1 game and SC Civil War are equally as good but I would NEVER buy them until the cheating issue is fixed. Please fix this issue.

Do you really think this is happening as you described? Do you have proof of this?
This is a serious accusation. I never heard of this particular way of cheating...just the log out-log on variety...which is rare as the perps account will get flagged if a pattern is developed.

I have 1000s of hrs playing MP only wargames...including all the SC games lately last 4 or so years. Learned to play with folks in the Matrix community after running into ghosters and quitters found on public challenges. Never have any problems now after curating the right folks that fit my style and I fit theirs. Never ran into any cheating as far as I know...and after hundreds and hundreds of hours of playing...I would be able to discern if in fact I was being jacked.

Btw...I hate cheaters. Worst kind of vermin. Never understood the mindset. Would like to know how you know the particular way you detailed of using screenshots or phone captures to cheat.