Matrix Games Forums

Once the USA joins the war, is there really any reason for the Axis not to DoW on Vichy France and make it easily surrender by walking into Vichy? I think there are a few minor diplomacy hits to the other Vichy territories but that doesn't seem to really matter. I would think the other Vichy territories should join the Allies if Germany invades Vichy France.

Historically Germany did take over the mainland part of vichy France without such reactions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case_Anton

It does hit both Turkey and Spain diplomatically, I think enough (depending on their previous leaning) to halt trade and possibly port access in the southern atlantic.

Further, this makes both countries more susceptible to superior allied Diplomacy, with enough investment, Spain and/or Turkey may well be allied war participants by 43/44 if Vichy is toppled immediately.

Yes but Case Anton was initiated due to the Allies invading North Africa. So if they haven't invaded North Africa then shouldn't Algeria and Tunisia join the Allies?

And I don't believe it has any impact on Turkey. It does hit Spain but most likely if the Axis see the Allies invest in diplomacy then they will just pre-emptively invade Spain as its pretty easy to capture Madrid in 1-2 turns with just a handful of units.

Actually, scratch that. I keep forgetting I am in the world at war forum with the teeny tiny European map. Sorry :$

ORIGINAL: redrum68

Once the USA joins the war, is there really any reason for the Axis not to DoW on Vichy France and make it easily surrender by walking into Vichy? I think there are a few minor diplomacy hits to the other Vichy territories but that doesn't seem to really matter. I would think the other Vichy territories should join the Allies if Germany invades Vichy France.

Most players don't bother - just gives more territory to defend in the West when the focus needs to be the East. But in term of diplo - it's just the other Vichy countries which are leaning Axis but not enough to easily flip. On the other hand, if Allies DOW Algeria - it does push Vichy close to where you can flip them Axis with a small amount of diplo.

All in all I think it's a side show.

Vichy france gives a decent amount of MPP, it has several cities and a mine. I like to give it to Italy once the USA enters the war.

It's a definite meta problem. Vichy going to either Germany or Italy (in either WAW or WIE) is almost always worth it for the Axis in my experiences with both SP and MP games.

The only time I can see it not being worth it is if Germany is going for an Axis Spain or Turkey... obviously. But the MPP gain from the industry in Vichy France is probably more than enough to make up for that in units or diplo chits.

I can also see being worried about an Allied invasion in the south of France if you're in a multiplayer game, but in effect I feel like the other player could just choose to attack Vichy France in that case. If you invade and garrison that seems much better than not invading and having Vichy France be defenseless if the Allies choose to attack.