Matrix Games Forums

In combat, when many LCUs participate in a fight,many times you can see during combat animations, that one random LCU bears the brunt of combat. However, does it work the same during retreats, when your stack loses a battle with odds 2:1 or higher, and all units are forced to retreat to a different hex?
It seems to me that during forced retreats, losses are AVERAGED AMONG ALL retreating LCUs in the stack, though I have never compared units pre- and post battle.

During battles single units can take exceptional losses, both on the offense and defense. Like you say, during a retreat it's usually spread out over all units in the stack. I usually expect 1/3 of the unit's TOE to be lost during a forced retreat.

Is there any way to reduce retreat losses? Do leader skills matter for this? High Land skill perhaps?

Thread resurrection.

Retreat losses is such an obtuse game mechanic.

When you defend and hold ground, the combat report will give you info how the battle went. However, once the enemy achieves 2:1 odds and you have to retreat, then the combat report collates combat+retreat losses, so you dont know how many devices were lost during combat AND how many devices were lost due to retreat.

BWT, all retreats in WITP:AE look like routs. While combat have all those modifiers which can randomise combat losses, retreats look as if someone slapped a "lose 30% of all devices" tag on them.

Land combat simply boils down to who can get 2:1 odds first and force enemy to retreat.

On retreat all 'currently' (meaning after the combat phase) damaged devices are lost (left behind), which makes it look like a 'flat' destroyed rate.

Also, some of the non-damaged devices become damaged on retreat - stuff you broke when running away.
Yes, a fighting withdrawal is not simulated very well, but for that the game would have to take into consideration the individual positions of the units 'inside' the hex which the engine is not capable of doing. Essentially split the hex into many 'mini' hexes & resolve combat in those... or something.

Yaab wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 8:50 am Thread resurrection.

Old signature resurrection. I recall when this game was released it was often lamented among now departed members that the land combat aspect never got quite the level of treatment that air and naval combat did.

Actually, Jan Sako's explanation makes sense

I compared the FMSV Bde in Kota Bahru pre-battle and post-battle. The retreat destroyed all its disabled devices. Almost all active pre-battle devices became disabled after the battle. Only support squads behave somewhat differently and show more resilience, probably because they are not 100% on frontlines during combat.

My impression that a retreat always means a 30% device reduction was shaped by lopsided battles in the early-war China. But since Chinese LCUs start with 40-50% of their active devices disabled, now retreat losses in China make sense - it is the disabled devices that are destroyed en masse during a retreat.

BTW, did the new decency policy cancel the ladies on the right in the signature?

Platoonist wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 2:01 pm

Yaab wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 8:50 am Thread resurrection.

Old signature resurrection. I recall when this game was released it was often lamented among now departed members that the land combat aspect never got quite the level of treatment that air and naval combat did.


RS.jpg

Woah blast from the past. Whatever happened to Ron?

Tanaka wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:40 pm Woah blast from the past. Whatever happened to Ron?

Sorry to have to report that Ron passed away in 2017.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=344479

Yaab wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:26 pm
BTW, did the new decency policy cancel the ladies on the right in the signature?

Well, just one last appearance for Ron's sake.

Platoonist wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:21 pm

Tanaka wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:40 pm Woah blast from the past. Whatever happened to Ron?

Sorry to have to report that Ron passed away in 2017.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=344479

Wow so young at 51. From the sigs you know Ron really lived it up to the fullest. That post mentioned a lot of names from the past I remember well...DivePac, Mogami, CobraAus...so many have left us and such a testament to the long lastingness of this great game...

Platoonist wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:31 pm

Yaab wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:26 pm
BTW, did the new decency policy cancel the ladies on the right in the signature?

Well, just one last appearance for Ron's sake.


Ron's Volleyballers.jpg

When unsure if something is kinky just ask Kinkaid.

Tanaka wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 6:19 pm

Platoonist wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 4:21 pm

Tanaka wrote: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:40 pm Woah blast from the past. Whatever happened to Ron?

Sorry to have to report that Ron passed away in 2017.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3&t=344479

Wow so young at 51. From the sigs you know Ron really lived it up to the fullest. That post mentioned a lot of names from the past I remember well...DivePac, Mogami, CobraAus...so many have left us and such a testament to the long lastingness of this great game...

Well that's a punch in the gut... RIP Ron, and God Speed!

Seems Reserve mode can save your units from losing disabled devices during retreats.

Here is a Chinese corps prior to a battle.


Here is the same unit next turn. The Chinese stack lost the battle and retreated to Chengchow. Seems the corps did not take part in the battle and retreated in good order, saving all its disabled devices from destruction. I reckon this means this unit did not pass a roll to take part in the losing battle?


#retreat

Either it did not pass a die roll or it would not have been capable of changing the odds so the enemy won the battle. Not actually being engaged, the unit did not lose anything but retreated in good order, or as good as the unit is.

Damn, you are right. At most it would give 60 AV (30 from infantry squads and 32 from 320/10 support squads). So it was actually beneficial that this unit got disabled so much in previous battles.

So, in China I can play a sort of mini-game within LCU combat. Sacrifice some unit in Combat mode, and retreat with disabled LCUs in Reserve mode. I can probably throw some A/B/C divisions into the mix. Should I stay or should I go now?

Yaab wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:41 am Seems Reserve mode can save your units from losing disabled devices during retreats.

That is a GREAT find! And it actually makes sense, providing a mechanism for the player to replicate the ability to carry out an orderly, well planned retreat. Very nice!

Kull wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 3:07 pm

Yaab wrote: Thu Aug 10, 2023 8:41 am Seems Reserve mode can save your units from losing disabled devices during retreats.

That is a GREAT find! And it actually makes sense, providing a mechanism for the player to replicate the ability to carry out an orderly, well planned retreat. Very nice!

+1, especially with the Chinese!

So what is to keep us always keep the whole stack except one unit in Reserve?
That way if the enemy attacks and the battle CAN be won, the units flip into Combat & win (?). If it cannot be won, they just all retreat with all of their devices, apart of the unlucky sacrificial one.

What am I missing? I mean how is this not a known thing after all these years?

JanSako wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2023 7:43 pm So what is to keep us always keep the whole stack except one unit in Reserve?
Nothing!

That way if the enemy attacks and the battle CAN be won, the units flip into Combat & win (?). If it cannot be won, they just all retreat with all of their devices, apart of the unlucky sacrificial one.
Apparently so, it would take a Dev to explain.

What am I missing? I mean how is this not a known thing after all these years?
Who knows? Maybe no one noticed it.

But doing this would also limit enemy casualties which a player might not want to do.