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Playing 1st PBEM game after 6 months tuning up against AI
(I am learning that I devoloped allot of bad habbits against the AI during that time but that is another story... NOTE to New Players Forget everything you learned against the AI it all goes out the window against a human )

My opponet has ringed Noumea with subs and as we all know USN ASW has little to no effect untill they get into the high 40's low 50's experience. It is real hard to train them when are sunk as soon as they leave harbor. I have been feeding SC's to the Japanese torpedo Gods as offerings to get them to leave or at least get them to expend all their torpedos and go home.

Sooo my question has anyone EVER seen a sub get caught up in a minefield, My idea to cope with the sub mennace was to lay down minefields around Noumea (hoping) the Jap subs can be damaged or sunk with mines and persuaded to lurk elsewhere. After 3 weeks (game time) not 1 sub has been hit at all and my Air ASW has had virtualy no effect everything that can fly ASW missions is set for 100% at 1000 feet they site subs all over but rarely, if ever attack. I am waiting for destroyers from Perl with high ASW ratings to arrive to begin to deal with the subs but I was wondering if any of you long time players have ever used minefields to deter the Japanese subs around Noumea and has anyone ever seen a submarine hit a mine.

Thanks Paul

Mines, never seen a sub hit a mine but i am sure its possible. If you start dropping mines in all the hex's around Noumea you may start running in to then yourself. Mines dropped in a friendly base hex are considered to be defensive in statc fields. I you drop then in non base/coastal hex's the mine will disappear fairly quickly and will float off all over the place and will be an unmapped offensive mine field.

SC, best to sale them about for a while well away from subs until there exp is up, dont just sit them in hexs with jap subs as they will get killed at frist for no return. Use them to do a bit of escort duty until they are up to 50 exp. You will still loose lots of them but they will start to get kills. When you have some destroyers free use then to work along side the sc in a seperate tf in the same hex, I find this gives good results.

Plane on asw may not always hit enemy subs but they do force then down and make them waist fuel, it also means you can route convoys around them.

The dauntless off the carriers and marine units are very effective at asw, if you have your carriers in the area hiding in port set some of the dive bombers to do asw work. Although this may tell the ijn were your carriers are at.

Save you heavy bombers B17's for bombing ports and air fields not asw.

Theres my two pence worth.......

I know in the earlier versions subs could and did hit mines but I haven't seen it lately.

I have had my subs hit mines when on mine-laying missions into a hex that I previously mined. I don’t think I’ve ever had one of my subs hit an ENEMY mine, however. Since I use mines very heavily I often find my own mines causing more casualties to my units than enemy mines.

Yamamoto

I have never seen subs hitting mines but I asked the same question some times ago and some people did.

Nobody has reported it with UV 2.30, only with former versions, when mines were more deadly than now.

For ASW, the most efficient Allied planes (for attack and damage) are B-17, they are the most experienced fliers you have at the start of the game. It seems to me that any unit with less than 70 exp will never attack. But to put many planes on ASW ensures that you see them and increase the exp of your units. You can also use your best SBD units, put them ashore at Noumea between two CV sorties.

Then send hunting groups on patrol/no retire on spots where IJN subs were seen. I sent 1-2 groups with 4-6 DD and 6-10 SC. If Noumea is ringed with subs, you only need to break the ring at one place and then send all your convoys by this place. Never send transports without DD escort if possible. And try to establish a convoy system.

If you lack escort ships you can do the following: assign DD, PG and SC to a given port rather than to a convoy. When a convoy leaves a port, the escort will follow it for only one day. When a convoy approaches, the escort will be sent of the port with follow orders on the approaching convoy 1-2 in advance, to cover it on the last leg by merging the two TF once they sail together.

This tactic has proven especially useful off Noumea to cover damaged ships. They are sent back from example from Townville, take forever to cross the map at 5 knots and then are easy targets for a sub lurking off Noumea that will sunk them one hex short of safety.... By having DD and SC patroling off Noumea all the time and then merging with all damaged TF arriving in the vicinity, I reduced strongly this kind of loss.

IJN subs are more a nuisance than a major threat. If you lose ten SC to sink one I-boat, you are winning.

This problem is of my own making (Bad ideas and habbits learned against AI) Nearly everything went back to Pearl for AA upgrades (not perl as in my 1st post - mixing up work with play). I started to unload my airgroups from the carriers before sending them back but did not (those SBD's sure would be a big help right now)

Right now I am pitifully short of combatants (on the way) but getting killed by subs until then. I mined everything but did leave a channel NW in the direction of LV/Efate and one SE in the general direction of Brisbane and run AS patrols along these channels. I mined nearly every other hex so that one could walk on mines from Noumea to Koumac without getting your feet wet. The Japanese subs just run along through these mined hexes like on a Sunday drive you would think at least one would stumble into a mine!!!!

I went and checked my reference sources and find 9 subs (5 IJN 4 USN) that are Assumed/Presumed to have perished by hitting mines during the war so it did happen.

IJN
RO-64 04/12/45
I-30 10/13/42
RO-100 11/25/43
RO-103 07/28/43
I-363 07/08/44

USN
SS-218 Albacore 11/07/44
SS-294 Escolar 10/44
SS-250 Flier 08/13/44
SS-273 Robalo 07/26/44

Anyway Next time I do this different and will have to deal with the subs until good ASW assets arrive or my airgroups gain enough exp to actually attack something.... Grrrrr.

Paul

Upss.... sending all combat ships back to PH is a good idea against AI, but in PBEM Noumea may be attacked very soon. I send back any damaged ship and also part of my DD but only if I have at least 30 available in theater.

And if you only have subs to lay mines, they are very thiny so even if UV allowed it, 10-20 mines in 900 square miles (one hex) will not sink many subs.

But in WWII big minefields were the one of the reasons why subs were patroling in open seas rather than at the exit of the main ports.

Well... I've been playing this game for quite awhile now. One of my favourite aspects of UV is the ASW element, despite its rather simplistic and abstract nature.

Allied ASW tactics are rather straight forward in my opinion.

1) Air assets:

Use tactical bombers of any size on ASW patrol (1000-6000 feet has worked well for me). I find the Hudson is excellent as it has the range to cover lots of sea and the production levels to maintain squadron levels through all weather at high 70- 100% op levels. Seeing as Hudsons are rather flimsy and carry a modest payload, Naval Search and ASW seem to be the most efficient use of these aircraft. Mitchells and Marauders rotated out of frontline duty to rear areas for R&R also can perform yeoman service on ASW/Naval Search, preferably at lower op levels to regain morale. SBDs are obviously excellent in this role when assigned to rear areas due to their precision accuracy, but the larger numerical bomb loads of the medium bombers more than offset this. Under no circumstances use B-17s as they seem to suffer very high operational loss rates, have a near non-existant replacement rate, have a slow repair rate, and should really be husbanded for their most effective role, the reduction of enemy bases from high alltitude. Patrol bombers such as Catalinas should be left to Naval Search, as I've yet to witness a hit by a Cat since the games release. Finally, ASW/Naval Search missions seem to me to be a much more economical method of training aircrew, as training has no impact with regard to ASW, in my experience, anyway.

2) Naval assets:

Early in the campaign, allied experience levels are very low and ASW effectiveness suffers greatly as a result. I've found that the most economical and effective way to raise this experience while maintaining an acceptable survival rate is to run limited numbers of convoys with high escort levels (minimum of 10 escorts per convoy). This seems to lower the probability of a sub attack, limits the number of possible sub attacks, offers the best ratio of escort vs sub attacks, and provides valuable sea time for all vessels involved. Safety in numbers is the rule of thumb here.

Running bombardment missions vs low threat enemy bases such as Lunga, Tulagi, and Gili Gili (before they are painted with mines) has a wonderous effect on night experience. Running these early bombardment missions, when risk to ships is minimal, has also bagged small enemy task forces (even mine warfare TFs) in sharp surface actions. Participation in a surface engagement is the most expedient method of experience gain, but also the most dangerous.

By late 1942, the combination of prolonged sea duty, ASW armament improvements through refit, and the higher experience level of reinforcements arriving from Pearl Harbor simplify the Allies ASW mission. By 1943, the IJN may as well send the subs back to Japan as they become more of a liability in combat than a threat.

Don't use SCs as targets! As these little buggers gain experience, they become quite deadly as the Mousetrap is very effective.

Don't be hasty...let the aircraft on ASW duty do their job. Many players tend to be very impatient and crave action. They will commit ill prepared forces into the fray simply for the misguided necessity to "do something" aggressive. Time is your best friend. If you HAVE TO be aggressive, only enter a sub occupied hex with an ASW TF in an immediately adjacent hex to the TFs home base, as a damaged ship will have a very high probability of surviving long enough to make safe harbour.

Mines as an ASW defensive measure are a waste of time. While I've seen subs hit mines, it has usually been in offensive fields (mines laid in enemy hexes). Defensive minefields (those laid in friendly hexes are effective vs invasions and to a lesser extent, bombardments. Attempting to lay these fields only exposes these MLs to sub attack.

IJN Tactics:

Air assets. Same as Allied. IJN single engined float planes are useful in spotting subs, but I've seen only one reported hit.

Naval assets. IJN ASW tends to be ineffective in UV, and this is historically accurate. Detection probability is very low, but if an escort locates a sub and actually drops a pattern, look out! The high experience levels offer a high probability of a hit. Use whatever is available for escort duty.

Barge convoys are an interesting problem. If one places an escort with them (ie PC, PG, MSW etc), the larger size of the escort seems to make barges vulnerable to conventional bomber attack (as opposed to strafing attacks). But, in doing so, I've noticed a higher frequency of the escort detecting the sub and preventing an attack. Six of one, half dozen of the other I guess. I tend to leave barge TFs unescorted and very small in enemy air threat areas, but ad an escort and run large barge convoys in lower enemy air threat areas. Added bonus...unescorted barge TFs seem to attract enemy surface attacks by subs, and barges have an amazing success rate vs surfaced subs. (for some reason, sub commanders refuse to submerge when fired upon!)

Good hunting...

Just to piggyback on Ron's post...
I've seen PBYs score hits on IJN subs, but only when at a fairly high exp level. I'm talking 75-80 here...

I recently had a S-boat sunk by a Jake in July 1942 (well, actually it was bombed off (Japanese held) PM, ended the turn with 50 SYS and 70 FLT and sank before arriving to Cairns).

Regarding B-17, I still think it's a good idea to use them for ASW duties. Not always but if you have a half dozen subs surrounding Noumea, switch one or two squadrons of B-17 to ASW 1000 feet for clear days.
With two squadrons based in Luganville and maybe 6-8 IJN subs at close distance of Wunpuko, I have seen in a turn 20-25 sightings, 4-5 attacks and two subs reported hit. Both tried to return base and one sinks two days later.

On allied side, B-17, Avenger, Dauntless and Hudson are the best ASW planes in my opinion.
On Japanese side, Jake and Pete do a good job of spotting and attacking subs, damaging and sinking some. Other bombers and patrol planes are too few and too useful to be wasted on ASW.

As IJN, I also use ASW surface forces but only against S-boats. The modern US subs are less dangerous because of Mk14 torpedoes, have more fuel and are more difficult to find/hit. S-boats have few fuel so after some ASW attacks will be obliged to return to base, have more dangerous torpedoes and suffer more quickly from SYS damage (that is historical as they were old boats plagued with problems). And it seems to me that the higher SYS damage a sub has, the easier ASW can attack it. So everytime a S-boat is seen somewhere, I try to send 4-12 floatplanes and 4-5 DD chasing it. If the sub seen is a Mk14 one, I don't send a special ASW force.

Best way to deal with allied subs is to flood him with barges and wait for the subs to attack them on the surface. Sooner or latter one of the barges will deal out a major butt whipping.

I use my CVEs and CVLs in TFs to combat multiple sightings of subs in any one area. Even if you don't get any hits there are many attacks per sub forcing it to dive and use up fuel.