Matrix Games Forums

After playing old War in the Pacific, Uncommon Valor, Witp + AE, I decided to try Warplan Pacific.

I'm just beginning and toying around but I can say there's finally a game with real logistical constraints. Logistics are the really interesting part to me in the games I mentioned. Yet they fail to simulate the allies' problems in the first year. You always read transports were lacking. In the game (AE or last sophisticated iteration)) the *Dutch* APs almost could move everything you need to move (historical deployments) from A to B... and you still have tons of British, American and Australian transports... in other words something has to be wrong.

The thing is I discover that -as the US- I have zero transports. First historical deployments on the agenda: The Marines group to Samoa and Americal division to Noumea. I need to buy asap transports (x10; x20 to cover both operations I guess).

And I think this is *right*, logistical bottlenecks are *finally* simulated.

regards

Glad you enjoy it! From what I hear certain maps (Da Babes?) in WITPAE significantly limit the throughput of supply and transports, but I have yet to explore that far. If you're playing the newest versions here, US (+ PHI as an attached minor) and UK (+ commonwealth) each have 40 transports but zero LCUs. You get I think 60 more slow transports for each over time, but you do have to remake the LCUs, as they're one-time-use. Once you get into PBEM, you'll see that the US can move a ton of low strength units overseas then reinforce them magically. That's kind of the one complaint I have about WPP at this time but I don't think there is enough vocality about game balance at the moment. Once it hits steam in three weeks we'll see a bolus of users. Happy to take a game when you get more comfortable

But if they reinforce certain positions the Japanese can easily wipe out the unit putting it out of supply with fleets.

So if you reinforce it should be the most important locations like Suva or New Caledonia.

Trying to reinforce Rabuul or Guadalcanal will result in those units being destroyed easily.

The game is about bases.

AlvaroSousa wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:12 pm But if they reinforce certain positions the Japanese can easily wipe out the unit putting it out of supply with fleets.

So if you reinforce it should be the most important locations like Suva or New Caledonia.

Trying to reinforce Rabuul or Guadalcanal will result in those units being destroyed easily.

The game is about bases.

You would think that but I have done this successfully in every single game in 1.05/6, including vs. Hadros. Happy to have you prove me wrong if you want

eskuche wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:32 pm Glad you enjoy it! From what I hear certain maps (Da Babes?) in WITPAE significantly limit the throughput of supply and transports, but I have yet to explore that far. [..] each have 40 transports but zero LCUs. You get I think 60 more slow transports for each over time

I tried almost every mod, and no, my "Dutch APs moving everything" example is still true. Logistical constraints do not exist and I think it is essential to simulate 1942 imho

OK, I can use other nations' APs (transports).

AlvaroSousa wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:12 pm The game is about bases.

The very essence of the Pacific War, indeed.

Yes, I'm definitely liking the concept. Thanks and best regards.

TulliusDetritus wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:25 pm

eskuche wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:32 pm Glad you enjoy it! From what I hear certain maps (Da Babes?) in WITPAE significantly limit the throughput of supply and transports, but I have yet to explore that far. [..] each have 40 transports but zero LCUs. You get I think 60 more slow transports for each over time

I tried almost every mod, and no, my "Dutch APs moving everything" example is still true. Logistical constraints do not exist and I think it is essential to simulate 1942 imho

OK, I can use other nations' APs (transports).

AlvaroSousa wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:12 pm The game is about bases.

The very essence of the Pacific War, indeed.

Yes, I'm definitely liking the concept. Thanks and best regards.

Did you try Bottlenecks? https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... hp?f=10688

It even more restrained than DaBabes the most restrained mod of all I think...

Tanaka wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:38 pm Did you try Bottlenecks?

The game I am currently playing (H2H) is precisely with LST's mod ("bottlenecks" that is). Less supplies, true, but my "Dutch AP's could move from A to B everything that needs to be moved" example *is* still true. I tried basically all of them mods: CHS, RHS, Da Babes and now LST's.

best regards

eskuche wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:42 pm

AlvaroSousa wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:12 pm But if they reinforce certain positions the Japanese can easily wipe out the unit putting it out of supply with fleets.

So if you reinforce it should be the most important locations like Suva or New Caledonia.

Trying to reinforce Rabuul or Guadalcanal will result in those units being destroyed easily.

The game is about bases.

You would think that but I have done this successfully in every single game in 1.05/6, including vs. Hadros. Happy to have you prove me wrong if you want

So what did you take, when, what year is it now, and what is the situation?

AlvaroSousa wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:18 pm

eskuche wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:42 pm

AlvaroSousa wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:12 pm But if they reinforce certain positions the Japanese can easily wipe out the unit putting it out of supply with fleets.

So if you reinforce it should be the most important locations like Suva or New Caledonia.

Trying to reinforce Rabuul or Guadalcanal will result in those units being destroyed easily.

The game is about bases.

You would think that but I have done this successfully in every single game in 1.05/6, including vs. Hadros. Happy to have you prove me wrong if you want

So what did you take, when, what year is it now, and what is the situation?

Sorry to derail the topic a bit
But here you go from a random current game. In my game vs Hadros I stopped him at Batavia/Palambang with Philippine/AUS divisions and he had to concede.

I see what you did. He should be able to block ports to prevent you from doing a lot of this. I suspect he didn't.

eskuche wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:24 pm

AlvaroSousa wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 3:18 pm

eskuche wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:42 pm

You would think that but I have done this successfully in every single game in 1.05/6, including vs. Hadros. Happy to have you prove me wrong if you want

So what did you take, when, what year is it now, and what is the situation?

Sorry to derail the topic a bit
But here you go from a random current game. In my game vs Hadros I stopped him at Batavia/Palambang with Philippine/AUS divisions and he had to concede. a.jpg

It's actually not very feasible to put it into practice, although it sounds correct. You have no recon so allies (pre)-counterblockade without getting attacked. Also it places an extreme fatigue toll on your ships (if you even have the oil for it!), while you wait for Allied bombers and the inevitable BB or 5 CV response. Again, happy to test it out against you if you think otherwise. I am just pointing out this ahistorical scenario which I believe will become meta as steam users flow in. This flaw is only possible because reinforcements teleport from across the world without shipping need, making the initial low-strength transport overseas too easy.

had this happen to me once but I learned from it and stopped it next time.

TulliusDetritus wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 11:58 pm

Tanaka wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:38 pm Did you try Bottlenecks?

The game I am currently playing (H2H) is precisely with LST's mod ("bottlenecks" that is). Less supplies, true, but my "Dutch AP's could move from A to B everything that needs to be moved" example *is* still true. I tried basically all of them mods: CHS, RHS, Da Babes and now LST's.

best regards

You might be interested in this guys further mod of LST's Bottlenecks!

kbfchicago wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 11:49 am indirectly...DaBabes, I play a modified LST's Bottlenecks which is based on DaBabes with his adjustments. LST introduces allot of smaller units and some additional historical units. I've updated LST's startup. LST tweeted his start for rapid play, I prefer more historical start and randomly delayed mobilization of merchant ships (both sides). It actually also serves the purpose of making the initial turns easier, just in a different way. LST pre-positioned ships for easy assignment of initial orders. I slow the introduction of civilian merchants ships over the course of about 90-120 days. Reflecting for IJ the arming of merchants (no data, but my assumption is not every Japanese merchant ship was armed on 7 Dec 41....). Allied ships, which don't start armed, would have needed time to be mobilized, receive orders, et.al. Delays are shorter for ships in the immediate war zone (e.g. Philippines) and IJ mobilizes very quickly over the first couple of weeks. I also flattened some later mobilizations, spreading them out over time. Larger ships get mobilized before smaller ones (generally, some exceptions). Result is the first turn pain is spread out over the first 90 days or so. Again, no historical data to support this but as a guy who prefers to push the game to recognize historical constraints (where I can), I like it.

There are a couple things I am thinking of adding to the game from WP2.

if a transport fleet gets intercepted and takes transport hits it automatically retreats from a surface group.

generalfdog wrote: Sat Feb 26, 2022 3:55 am had this happen to me once but I learned from it and stopped it next time.

Could you share your method please?

eskuche wrote: Thu Feb 24, 2022 5:32 pm If you're playing the newest versions here, US (+ PHI as an attached minor) and UK (+ commonwealth) each have 40 transports but zero LCUs. You get I think 60 more slow transports for each over time, but you do have to remake the LCUs, as they're one-time-use.

Once you get into PBEM, you'll see that the US can move a ton of low strength units overseas then reinforce them magically. That's kind of the one complaint I have about WPP at this time but I don't think there is enough vocality about game balance at the moment.

There is a solution to this imo. Introduce the following rule:

When 1 manpower is required to repair a given unit in Port Supply, and not Main Supply, then 1 transport point is removed from the transport pool and declared In Use.

As such, if no transport is available, no repair is done.

The player will use the Normal reinforcements / Prioritized reinforcements to indicate which transport allocation must be used in priority.

If the player has a big offensive to start, he will stop repair on units, not needed, in Port Supply. As such, he will have a pool of transports to use. But, he may continue to use the Upgrade Only option to upgrade its units, in Port Supply, with its PP points since Upgrade only does not use any manpower.

Any ships or air units in Port Supply Interdiction on a given port, containing an enemy unit under repair and requiring transport of manpower, may have a chance to sink a transport carrying manpower. This sunk transport will be removed from the transport pool of the given country and one manpower point will be lost for the given country.

Since, as per the rule, a unit will repair 20% of its full strength each turn if possible, if several manpower points are used, the equivalent number of transports are used. Its mean one or more transport, manpower points could be sunk and eliminated during a repair.

As an example, if 3 manpower points are used to repair an unit in a port in Port Supply Interdiction. If an enemy air unit is sinking 2 transports, the unit will gain only one manpower back. 2 manpower points and 2 transports will be removed from the pool of the given country.

Air unit won't be affected since, as per manual, air units do not require manpower to repair.

In the Pacific, there are countless stories of troop transports, carrying divisions, sunk by US submarines preventing reinforcements of Japanese occupied islands.

I really like this idea. For me, this is an elegant way to resolve the above problem without too much micromanagement.

Any opinions from other players?

Just to add to this, it is too easy for the Allies to reinforce DEI. And Japan will run out of oil trying to blockade all the ports.

I don't think Allied units should be able to draw supply from DEI ports before DEI is conquered.

DEI is a Main Supply source in Sumatra and in Java. You won't blockade ports with your navy. Save your oil.

Japan can capture Rabaul, Lea and Guadalcanal on turn one. But that will leave Manus, Kavieng and Buin uncovered. It is easy to close down Manus and Kavieng from reinforcement. The Yamato and a couple of BBs strategically placed will destroy anything that attempts to land. Plus you have the Ryujo to throw into the mix.

Buin is tougher. A few ships sitting between Buin and Munda will most likely sink all but a full unit. The Ausie Rangers usually take 4 or 6 hits but can survive. On turn one they are the only allied full strength division (I think Philippine units should stay in the Philippines) in the area. All others are either weakened or not in a port. I guess you could bring over the De Ruter or whats left of the UK fleet in Singapore to "soak off" the interception from the Japanese fleets.(once again, this does not seem right so I have not tried it). The trouble with this strategy is it consumes a ton of oil. Every Japanese ship afloat is either used to control these ports or to support landings. That is 50 something Oil Points per turn.

Well, this is Solomons but this is DEI too. See the result of the Allies move first turn.

---