Matrix Games Forums

https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApomLrihV-7hgckaKM- ... A?e=3TDoOU
(not sure the image link works correctly)

Another sad example of the 13th Panzer Division getting mauled on turn 1.

The 13th Pz & 25th Mot were in a stack, performing a hasty attack against the 10th Tank Division.

The 10th Tank Div, had already been attacked (10.8 to 1 odds) and force to retreat.

So, this is the 2nd time the 10th Tank Div had been attacked. This time, it is in the clear, no entrenchments.

The odds on the map (via their counters) present odds at (48 to 3), being hasty would equate to (24 to 3).

The combat results odds were (225.5 to 0).

The 13 Pz lost 106 out of 136 tanks, with vast majority of the 106, destroyed.

I have a really hard time equating odds of (225.5 to 0) (infinity to 1)? with the loss of 106 out of 136 (80%) tank losses.

This makes me sad.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApomLrihV-7hgckbO6v ... w?e=HxbRnN

This is same attack, but this time with only the 25th Mot.

Final combat results odds were (12.3 to 1)

By not including the 13th Pz Div in the attack, losses for attacker were reduced as follows:
(556 to 145) Inf, (9 to 8) Guns, (106 to 0) afvs.

This is the part of the game that really makes my head hurt.

I have no idea how to explain the drastic reduction in inf losses. You would think they would have gone up given the 13th is not involved this time.

Topic - not in the specific of which division but in general of Panzer Division brittleness - is discussed already here.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 6&t=379611

I believe it's already widely known and diffused as situation.

AlbertN wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:25 am Topic - not in the specific of which division but in general of Panzer Division brittleness - is discussed already here.

I believe it's already widely known and diffused as situation.

Brand new forum. Nothing widely known.

So quit trying to hijack my thread, man.

Help Help I'm being oppressed

You didn't provide any repeatable saves. Do you want to see a change or is this just general moaning?

well just for a surprise our DarkHorse2 has exactly the same whinge on the Steam forum under his 'Dorian Grey' sock puppet with the same image links. Hanny really is a busy boy these days when all he has to do is to agree to the forum rules and he can get his original account back. It must get confusing remembering which posting name he is using at any one time.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1775550/ ... 519137394/

Tank losses for 1941 are going internal review and changes are being made to reflect the issues that have been raised in the forums.

DarkHorse2 wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 1:43 am
So quit trying to hijack my thread, man.

Help Help I'm being oppressed

Its not your thread man, its public and its technically owned by Matrix Games/Slitherine.

So we can post here, post our opinions and as you call it 'hijack' the thread...

xhoel wrote: Fri Feb 25, 2022 9:56 am Tank losses for 1941 are going internal review and changes are being made to reflect the issues that have been raised in the forums.

This is great news!

FWIW in 1942, I am testing (newest beta testing exes) tank vs tank combat and out of sheer desperation and shoestring operations I have been forced to use panzer divisions in direct HA/DA against both Soviet Rifle and Tank Corps in Aug-Sept 42 and even with CPP in the red have been able to get good results.



The 3rd Panzer Division (the 5-24) is at 6 CPP, 64/81 TOE and still has 112 tanks, 13,164 men and 128 guns.

The 23rd Panzer Division (the 9-24) is at 3 CPP, 68/86 TOE and still has 132 tanks, 13,709 men, and 125 guns.

The first attack was not successful.


The second attack was.

Final positions.

In 42 Panzers are not as brittle as in '41 but I felt them still pretty exceedingly frail. In general even with minor operations only the number of tanks remained broadly low if used.

This has already been discussed at length and replied to in another thread which the OP participated in, which remains on this same forum and is not old. Locking this up until there is a new build with changes to revisit the discussion.