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guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 5:27 pm
by Stamb
Living manual says:
From March 1942, three Soviet airborne brigades can be combined to create a
Guards Rifle Division.
It means that Soviet player can build airborne brigades and then get free (without a need of 8 wins) guard riffle divisions?
Is it really working like that?
If it is - isn't it an exploit that is hidden in a manual only for the players that is actually not lazy to read it?
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2022 6:27 pm
by Stamb
This abuse was house ruled in HLYA's AAR:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... 3#p4891113
* No using Airborne Regiment to circumvent Guards limit
That post was made 16 Sep 2021.
It means it is known for quite some time.
Nobody raised this topic or Soviet players are secretly abusing it?
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 10:56 am
by Stamb
One more example:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/view ... &start=220
Far from the front lines, should the need arise we have a sapper army. Airborne and construction brigades are able to get fort levels up rather well. I don't merge any of the airborne brigades into guards rifle divisions as some do.
I think it should be fixed within a game and not by mutual agreement.
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:17 pm
by Zovs
I don’t see any need for a fix.
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:24 pm
by Stamb
Divisions were renamed as a guards (at least if we are talking about riffle one) for an achievements in a battles. Why 0 wins airborne brigades becomes guards?
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 4:49 pm
by Zovs
My misunderstanding I read guards rifle brigades, so disregard.
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:28 pm
by baloo7777
You cannot use AB units that are withdrawn at a later time in the Campaign '41 scenario. There are only 6 AB brigades not withdrawn so you could build 2 Guards Rifle Divisions at best. If you play the Soviets, you realize that you are not able to build more airborne brigades (at least in 1941-42).
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:30 pm
by Stamb
I checked with latest beta and on turn 1 i can build airborne brigades.
P.S I did not click build them, but they were in the list.
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:38 pm
by Stamb
- 1.png (2.48 MiB) Viewed 1178 times
turn 1
build 3 AB
no more AP
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 5:39 pm
by baloo7777
My last PBEM game (my first as the Soviets I admit) I was not able to build airborne units as they were not available when the ability to use them to build guards RD's began. I know because I looked. We had been upgrading betas as soon as they came out, but I don't remember what version we were on then.
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:51 pm
by Denniss
Airborne Bdes have build limits of 43,36,25 and 4 for 1941,42,43,44
The 43 in 41 may be higher than the initial amount of units thus you can build them.
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 6:55 pm
by Stamb
lets take 36 in `42
36/3 = 12 riffle guard divisions almost for free
is this WAD?
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:39 pm
by horza66
Ok, so a bit of a misunderstanding here - yes, there's potential for abuse, but it's limited.
You can build 15 airborne brigades on top of the existing ones which are due to disband (and cannot be used for guards divisions therefore). On the first turn of March '42 you can build these up into 5 guards divisions. This reflects a historical process I believe.
Here's the abuse: you are still allowed to build airborne brigades in March. So on the first turn of March you create your Guards divisions, and build 15 more brigades. On second turn you deploy to map. Third turn you form fresh guards divisions, and build 15 more brigades. Fourth turn deploy to map. In April '42 you lose the ability to build the airborne brigades, but you can build up the third group into 5 more guards divisions.
So a total of 15 guards divisions. If you have used the harsh winter wisely, it's likely this will be 15 more divisions than the limiting percentage.
However the percentage increases again in July '42. So it's 15 more guards divisions than the set limit for four months.
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:44 pm
by Stamb
horza66 wrote: Sun Mar 06, 2022 7:39 pm
Ok, so a bit of a misunderstanding here - yes, there's potential for abuse, but it's limited.
You can build 15 airborne brigades on top of the existing ones which are due to disband (and cannot be used for guards divisions therefore). On the first turn of March '42 you can build these up into 5 guards divisions. This reflects a historical process I believe.
Here's the abuse: you are still allowed to build airborne brigades in March. So on the first turn of March you create your Guards divisions, and build 15 more brigades. On second turn you deploy to map. Third turn you form fresh guards divisions, and build 15 more brigades. Fourth turn deploy to map. In April '42 you lose the ability to build the airborne brigades, but you can build up the third group into 5 more guards divisions.
So a total of 15 guards divisions. If you have used the harsh winter wisely, it's likely this will be 15 more divisions than the limiting percentage.
However the percentage increases again in July '42. So it's 15 more guards divisions than the set limit for four months.
thanks for explaining
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:16 pm
by Stamb
bump
Re: guard riffle divisions abuse?
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:40 pm
by M60A3TTS
This was an issue that was discussed prior to release. It was not deemed by the devs to be a major issue, so AFAIK there are no plans to change anything.