Sub surprise forever
Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2022 1:33 am
Crosspost from WPE forums:
I noticed over several turns that subs ALWAYS get surprise. We don't know what kind of bonus this gives, but the manuals suggest that they should have only a CHANCE to surprise. This got annoying when I lost an upgraded Yamato (a 5 HP BB) within a 6 BB/BC fleet trying to bait out interdictions from low 2-3 sub groups. That in itself was a (1/6)*0.3*0.1 (double crit) * (1/6) * 0.3 chance, assuming the subs damage went through (6? surface vs. 12 defense), so basically impossible under how we understand the rules. I did some testing and it looks like this is in fact true and not at all what the manual suggests. Given the extremely miniscule chance of the above at 0.00025% assuming full hits every time and the fact that we have no idea how sub surprise works, I am kind of at a loss. Yes, it's historical, but not fun given with stjeand's testing that carriers get decimated at a fraction of the cost. At least they do not blockade anymore, but I am just not going to use my navy period if there are 18 sub fleets running around (4 turns of US production).
For the record, I have half anti-sub tech and have had 10+ attacks on sub fleets with maybe one kill max each turn over several turns in-game.
On more investigation, subs are able to freely surprise interdict 100% WITHOUT RECON, which breaks the rules of the game and makes a 5 sub stack extremely disproprionately strong.
I noticed over several turns that subs ALWAYS get surprise. We don't know what kind of bonus this gives, but the manuals suggest that they should have only a CHANCE to surprise. This got annoying when I lost an upgraded Yamato (a 5 HP BB) within a 6 BB/BC fleet trying to bait out interdictions from low 2-3 sub groups. That in itself was a (1/6)*0.3*0.1 (double crit) * (1/6) * 0.3 chance, assuming the subs damage went through (6? surface vs. 12 defense), so basically impossible under how we understand the rules. I did some testing and it looks like this is in fact true and not at all what the manual suggests. Given the extremely miniscule chance of the above at 0.00025% assuming full hits every time and the fact that we have no idea how sub surprise works, I am kind of at a loss. Yes, it's historical, but not fun given with stjeand's testing that carriers get decimated at a fraction of the cost. At least they do not blockade anymore, but I am just not going to use my navy period if there are 18 sub fleets running around (4 turns of US production).
For the record, I have half anti-sub tech and have had 10+ attacks on sub fleets with maybe one kill max each turn over several turns in-game.
On more investigation, subs are able to freely surprise interdict 100% WITHOUT RECON, which breaks the rules of the game and makes a 5 sub stack extremely disproprionately strong.
- subsubsub.jpg (208.8 KiB) Viewed 404 times
- sub2.png (194.01 KiB) Viewed 404 times