Matrix Games Forums

All of my fleet templates are set to exclude frigates.

Why then are half of the ships in my fleets frigates?

Can you post a picture of your fleet template?....GP

As you can see, there are zero frigates in the Attack Fleet template, while each Attack Fleet contains frigates.

Did you build from all new ships or from existing ships? Also post a save with this info in the tech sub-forum....GP

I can confirm, I have this behaviour but with escorts and over multiple playthroughs, I have set 0 escorts yet the ai keeps putting escorts in my fleets.

can it be that you dont have enough ships of the types you want free?
because then it picks size types of the other types.

try removing the unwanted ships and hit the "top up fleet" button again. maybe that helps.

The system should follow the template. It sounds like a bug....GP

that is what i meant... its mentioned in the fleet tour.

It says "other roles". Not other classes. I think that we need clarification on that paragraph....GP

Not really sure how the two elements are meant to interact, but have you checked the "Escort Build Ratio" in the policy settings in the empire tab?

Fall-back to lower roles is correct when enough ships of the desired roles in the template are not available. Not a bug unless you have plenty of the desired ships.

Erik Rutins wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:32 pm Fall-back to lower roles is correct when enough ships of the desired roles in the template are not available. Not a bug unless you have plenty of the desired ships.

So by roll you mean classes of ships? But, if I ask for destroyers, I expect destroyers. Whatever is available....GP

It appears to me this game has somehow combined role and class. I would love to see ‘class’ be the size of ship and ‘role’ be something assigned to a particular design and/or ship (a new piece of data). Then auto refits would only trigger if there is a new design for that class with the same role.

Just my opinion but I really believe this would give more flexibility as well as less likelihood of unwanted refits in mid to late game when using automation.

I’m enjoying the game.

btd64 wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:39 pm

Erik Rutins wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:32 pm Fall-back to lower roles is correct when enough ships of the desired roles in the template are not available. Not a bug unless you have plenty of the desired ships.

So by roll you mean classes of ships? But, if I ask for destroyers, I expect destroyers. Whatever is available....GP

I mean role (Escort, Frigate, Destroyer, etc.) in DW2 terms.

This has always been the case, throughout alpha and beta as well.

If you build a fleet template and say "i want 10 Cruisers in this fleet" but have automated fleet formation on and all you have are Destroyers, it will fill in with the closest role it can find (Destroyers). If you have Cruisers, it will prefer to use Cruisers. Note that this only applies to the automation for fleet formation and fleet ship management. When it comes to build orders based on that template, it will build according to the template and not "fill" with lower roles, so in the previous case if you could not build Cruisers, you could not build that fleet.

SamuraiProgrmmr wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:49 pm It appears to me this game has somehow combined role and class. I would love to see ‘class’ be the size of ship and ‘role’ be something assigned to a particular design and/or ship (a new piece of data). Then auto refits would only trigger if there is a new design for that class with the same role.
Just my opinion but I really believe this would give more flexibility as well as less likelihood of unwanted refits in mid to late game when using automation.
I’m enjoying the game.

In DW2 terms, there is role (Escort, Frigate, Destroyer, etc.), Design (what kind of Escort, Frigate, Destroyer), Hull (what is the base hull template for this design) and Fleet Role (Picket, Close Escort, Attack - what is its position and main function within a fleet).

Role in DW2 is "class" in modern naval terms.

Thank you for your clarification. I think I mostly understand what you said, but I am going to have to do some more reading and explore the tech tree deeper than I have before I can say I fully understand how all 4 of those fit together. I had considered Role, Design, and Fleet Role but have missed the denotation of Hull. It may be that I overlooked it or it may be that when I saw 'Hull', I thought 'Role' in DW2 terms and moved on. Maybe that's the piece I am looking for.

Either way, thank you for taking the time to enlighten me. I figure you are busier than a one armed wall paper hanger at the moment. I am impressed with your alacrity, diplomacy, and calm during this release.

As I said before, I am enjoying the game!

Thanks!

OK Erik, I got it. Mostly in Alpha and Beta I was only using available ships if I knew I had them. Which makes sense to me. If I didn't have the ships, I used the build option....GP

Erik Rutins wrote: Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:32 pm Fall-back to lower roles is correct when enough ships of the desired roles in the template are not available. Not a bug unless you have plenty of the desired ships.

Can you see how this kind of second-guessing of the player's intention by the game's automation setting, so that the player and the automation are fighting one another, is a frustrating system to interact with on the player's behalf?

Working as designed but design is poor

This is still an issue in the 1.0.7.9 version of the game, unaddressed in patch notes for 1.0.8.0

StormingKiwi wrote: Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:35 pm This is still an issue in the 1.0.7.9 version of the game, unaddressed in patch notes for 1.0.8.0

I think it is fair to say that the AI will, when it's logic engine determines the need for a feet, address the need by providing a solution within the empire's means at that time.

Erik's response, if I have interpreted it correctly, was on that line of thinking.