Matrix Games Forums

So what is the point of credits?
I have ever only used them for selling rare metals and buying common metals. Also, some decisions require a litte amount of credits.
Other than that, I have not messed with taxe a single time, have never increased any salary besides workers and am doing fine so far. Seems to be an utterlly neglectable resource for me.

Try a difficulty one step higher, where you do not have nearly enough taxes to cover your starting expenses.

Later game it is not uncommon to basically have a few thousand in the bank. Realy, that is a good state to be in.

But early game, you are usually strapped for cash. I often build the Rare Metals Mine ASAP, simply so I have something valuable to sell the second I need a large influx of cash.
I also usually cut the Soldier Recruitment bonus to 0 and the Worker Salary, just to be able to pay everyone.

Ok that sounds a bit different. I am playing one difficulty above the easiest. For example I always hire the guys the factions offer me and with meritocracy I have always or surplus of at least 10 leaders in the reserve pool. I guess that would be huge waste of money on your difficulty.

Perhaps I'm playing poorly, but I'm constantly strapped for cash in every scenario I've played so far. I'm currently 80 rounds in and have trouble meeting payroll every turn. (Playing on extreme difficulty.)

I've always thought it might be a cool feature addition to be able to borrow money from some sort of world bank to finance projects and wars, then have to pay it back on a schedule, with interest. A feature like that might change the complexion of cash, and maybe even how the game is played in general. It would add another dimension to the political arena of a regime, with leader disagreements over whether to deficit spend or not.

-Mark R.

Are credits kinda useless?
Oh, hell no.
Trust me, there will be games where you are so strapped for cash...it will not be good.
Having a robust economy, credit wise, allows one to pay for all those resources you can't find or the planet does not supply in order to sustain your colony/empire...if the traders are willing.
Being able to persuade your population/workers to be 'happy' thus productive is vital...the more you pay them, the happier they will be; not to neglect buying off the enemy, on occasion.
The militia, are not opposed to being enriched...until you don't need them any more.
Lets' not forget those, very important, council members & leaders.
There will be times (sometimes numerous) when they will need an attitude adjustment & credits are a cheap (if you have that much) antidote to curing what ails them...if only temporary.
If you play with the Story Modules on...more credits will be needed in due time.
The bigger your military, the more resources you will need & that is where credits can be a life saver...again, if the traders are willing.

I have had games where I was able to build up a decent cash flow & other games when I was barely able to survive due to economic woes.
Thus, I have been rich & I have been poor...rich is better.

I have not yet played a game where I am flush with money. There's always someone wanting the money, be it workers or cards or whatever.

Imagine your credit balance as coolant for your nation-state. Overheat your spending (construction, army size, etc.) and you run out of coolant and the engine seizes and breaks. Too many credit's and you aren't investing enough (opportunity cost). Barely none and you're overheating. It's an engine and your watching the gauges.

I think the credits work fine on hardest difficulty for 1st 30-40 turns but after that its just somewhat pointless, maybe there should be some sort of trading penalty based on the amount of BP you produce? As selling items to market is just way too easy loop hole to never worry about salaries or anything later in the game.

Something along the way that before 1000BP production in your nation you dont get any penalties to trade but after that every 1000BP doubles the buy costs and halves the money gained from market/trading because nation size? Something like this would make the worker salaries matter bit more and you would care more of your income, never had to raise taxes or anything... Might make the tax/salary part of the economy game more relevant as nation size would not effect it.

phyroks wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:38 am I think the credits work fine on hardest difficulty for 1st 30-40 turns but after that its just somewhat pointless, maybe there should be some sort of trading penalty based on the amount of BP you produce? As selling items to market is just way too easy loop hole to never worry about salaries or anything later in the game.

Something along the way that before 1000BP production in your nation you dont get any penalties to trade but after that every 1000BP doubles the buy costs and halves the money gained from market/trading because nation size? Something like this would make the worker salaries matter bit more and you would care more of your income, never had to raise taxes or anything... Might make the tax/salary part of the economy game more relevant as nation size would not effect it.

That would just incentivise people to keep their BP production below 1k.
Instead have a limit that is based on how many BP you have - the more you got, the higher.

Also, I am pretty sure there are a number of countries today that make most of their money by selling resources and manufactured goods. Some wierd thing called "Export"?

zgrssd wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 10:03 am

phyroks wrote: Wed May 04, 2022 8:38 am I think the credits work fine on hardest difficulty for 1st 30-40 turns but after that its just somewhat pointless, maybe there should be some sort of trading penalty based on the amount of BP you produce? As selling items to market is just way too easy loop hole to never worry about salaries or anything later in the game.

Something along the way that before 1000BP production in your nation you dont get any penalties to trade but after that every 1000BP doubles the buy costs and halves the money gained from market/trading because nation size? Something like this would make the worker salaries matter bit more and you would care more of your income, never had to raise taxes or anything... Might make the tax/salary part of the economy game more relevant as nation size would not effect it.

That would just incentivise people to keep their BP production below 1k.
Instead have a limit that is based on how many BP you have - the more you got, the higher.

Also, I am pretty sure there are a number of countries today that make most of their money by selling resources and manufactured goods. Some wierd thing called "Export"?

That would just incentivise people to keep their BP production below 1k.

You just had to make decision between money and research, it just means the money just got new aspect in the game so it would already work to some extend

Im playing on "extreme" and "slower" speed on 125x49 planet, I dont know who in their right mind would keep BP production under 1K on these settings, it would most likely be much smaller number like 500? normal speed (but these are something vic needs to try figure out, just throwing out idea where to perhaps tie it)
I dont personally like things like % planet owned to effect it as it would not make much sense to take over desert/empty space, number of towns would just want you to remove towns, population could be one but this would then mean that having more taxed population would also hurt the trade which would move the balance of income less towards salaries/tax and would rather want to boost that part more (imo).

Some wierd thing called "Export"?

Just for the upkeep part 75% of its paid by selling and I just increase salaries if there is problems as money is nearly worthless atm, but I sell more than that because I naturally buy some goods I need, so yeah I dont know these weird places with 90%+ of their national income coming from exports, specially not large nations who have over 15% of the world under their control(you got some examples?), but maybe some micro nations could have, which this would still allow.

Im not sure but doubt you can find many nations (irl) with more than 30% income from exports, and if shadow emprire would only give 30% income from exports it would be insane improvement as the taxation would have to be largest portion of cash flow.

I know you like to always defend things with real world examples but honestly gameplay is more important aspect, and the examples should reflect the proportions/situation.

The issue with trading for massive amounts of money is that the reason those goods are so pricey is that someone has bid them up. If you sell a ton of valuable resources, there's somebody on the other end of that transaction. In singleplayer the AI probably isn't making the best usage of its resources, so it doesn't matter as much.

Soldier salary affects morale.

Worker salary affects worker happiness which affects worker productivity.

Public budget can build a lot of useful buildings, and keep the population happy without giving you other upkeep costs.

The best options in events usually cost a lot of money.

Money can buy off troublesome characters, and especially kick them out of the government more easily.

Character salaries and bribes/gifts impact your relationship with them, which impacts the bonuses they give to your state. Some bonuses can be quite significant, like how well your troops do in combat, or how fast you can discover and research tech, or how happy your city population is, or (most important) how many BP and card points you generate per turn.

Try playing on Hard. Money becomes quite significant then. Getting Interior Council first, so you can get Tax and Tariff cards can save your bacon.