Matrix Games Forums

My running total is bouncing around all over the place. Where do I access the per item list of income and outgoings so I can audit it?

I feel like I'm expected to run a military but I don't even have Quickbooks installed. The summary amounts shown in the financials tabs are woefully inadequate.

Econmoy (F2) and funding Levels (Shift+F2).
Literally the 1st and second options under Empire.

Note that Bonus income by definition and design can not be predicted.

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:42 am Econmoy (F2) and funding Levels (Shift+F2).
Literally the 1st and second options under Empire.

Note that Bonus income by definition and design can not be predicted.

maggiecow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:35 am The summary amounts shown in the financials tabs are woefully inadequate.

I want to find out why my funds are up and down so much. Clearly some big ticket item is coming out on a regular basis but I have no idea what it is. I literally want to see a list of money in and money out. The game is keeping track of it already, so put it in a log file I can look at.

maggiecow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:01 pm

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:42 am Econmoy (F2) and funding Levels (Shift+F2).
Literally the 1st and second options under Empire.

Note that Bonus income by definition and design can not be predicted.

maggiecow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:35 am The summary amounts shown in the financials tabs are woefully inadequate.

I want to find out why my funds are up and down so much. Clearly some big ticket item is coming out on a regular basis but I have no idea what it is. I literally want to see a list of money in and money out. The game is keeping track of it already, so put it in a log file I can look at.

Increase: Bonus Income
Decrease: Some automatic doing stuff that needs money

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:09 pm

maggiecow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:01 pm

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:42 am Econmoy (F2) and funding Levels (Shift+F2).
Literally the 1st and second options under Empire.

Note that Bonus income by definition and design can not be predicted.

maggiecow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 11:35 am The summary amounts shown in the financials tabs are woefully inadequate.

I want to find out why my funds are up and down so much. Clearly some big ticket item is coming out on a regular basis but I have no idea what it is. I literally want to see a list of money in and money out. The game is keeping track of it already, so put it in a log file I can look at.

Increase: Bonus Income
Decrease: Some automatic doing stuff that needs money

If you've nothing to add the option is right there to not write anything. Or, and apologies if this sounds patronising, perhaps you think you're helping? You're not.

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:09 pm Increase: Bonus Income
Decrease: Some automatic doing stuff that needs money

Okay, people have bank accounts. Money goes into the bank account and money comes out. At any time you can look at your bank app and see what the running total is.

Would you be okay with never being able to check your statement and just look at the running total. Once a month you get a summary showing ALL the money spent on food, rent, medication, but not the individual amounts?

Because that's what you're happy with.

I think this is sorely needed, as in actually necessary, also graphs....

But what would be really amazing for immersion, fun and also practical would be to access throughput logs on the docks/shipyards of stations.
This much caslon moved through this month, this much steel was shipped through here this month, etc.
We can already sort of guess this by looking at current amounts and setting thresholds, but some more insight would really help with a lot of things.

maggiecow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:14 pm

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:09 pm

maggiecow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:01 pm



I want to find out why my funds are up and down so much. Clearly some big ticket item is coming out on a regular basis but I have no idea what it is. I literally want to see a list of money in and money out. The game is keeping track of it already, so put it in a log file I can look at.

Increase: Bonus Income
Decrease: Some automatic doing stuff that needs money

If you've nothing to add the option is right there to not write anything.

Then use that option.

maggiecow wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:18 pm

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:09 pm Increase: Bonus Income
Decrease: Some automatic doing stuff that needs money

Okay, people have bank accounts. Money goes into the bank account and money comes out. At any time you can look at your bank app and see what the running total is.

Would you be okay with never being able to check your statement and just look at the running total. Once a month you get a summary showing ALL the money spent on food, rent, medication, but not the individual amounts?

Because that's what you're happy with.

You want a full listing of every single transaction?
That would round about double the memory demand of the game.
This is a 4x game running at a scale of 1 day/second, not the accounting software of your local bank - which by the way has days before transactions need to be processed.

There is a listing per month, by usecase. Nothing more is realy feasible.

But I seriously doubt that is even the issue.
What does it mater to you, if you know the automatic spend 5k on Ships,Troops or a facility upgrade? The Automatic spend 5k either way.

What you want is money being reserved for something.
Currently, that only seems to happen for Colonyships, if you use the Expansion planer.

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:09 pm Increase: Bonus Income
Decrease: Some automatic doing stuff that needs money

I know you gave the correct answer to the question,
but you have to admit, it was the most condensed version possible

The things you ask to see for your Bank Account are in the game.

Empire Menu :

Economy, Funding Levels, Maintenance.

Colony Menu :
Every Colony single colony income is listed.

Just turn every automation option into suggested or manuel.
This will teach you the fastest how your empire spends it's money.

And when you know this, you can slowly turn up the automation for stuff that annoys you, then you still know where your money goes.

After counter-checking I have to admit.
I would like an annual figure for State Ship Construction and Retrofits.
Can't be that hard, it is allready there for the Private Sector and other Empires.

.. holy Lighbulb Batman .. to the suggestion thread.

Maybe I am missing something, but I have turned every single automation option off, have a positive cash flow figure, but every time I accumulate like 10k cash it immediately disappears. I have no idea on what.

Is the displayed 'cash' only cash from the 'reserved percentage'? Plus 'excess cash after funding research'? Is it all cash revenue and then maintenance is deducted from it? I dont understand why it fluctuates so much when I have a substantial positive cash flow.

I dont have that many ships that require retrofits to require 10k spends every few days.

No the reserved cash percentage is most likely what gives you a positive cashflow.

In the Ship Designer, are Ships set to Auto-Retrofit ?
The three columns to the right are actually options you can trigger by clicking.
So every time you reach enough money a State Ship gets retrofitted.

I borrowed the picture, so there are private ships instead of state ships, but the concept stays the same.

Thanks. The only thing I could think it was was retrofits, but I was watching my fleets, and had set most of my designs to Manual. There was no way I was spending 10k every few days on retrofits.

Also, I noticed the Private Economy spends a lot of money on buying fuel. There is a line item in the PE that shows their fuel spend. There is no equivalent line on my income statement for fuel sold to the private economy (foreign states yes, a small value), but its nowhere close to the amount spent by the private economy. so who are they buying the fuel from? because I aint seeing that income anywhere.

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:34 pm
You want a full listing of every single transaction?
That would round about double the memory demand of the game.

Yes, that's exactly what I want. And it wouldn't double the memory requirement. Why even say that?

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:34 pm This is a 4x game running at a scale of 1 day/second, not the accounting software of your local bank

And yet, I want that accounting software access, because why wouldn't I?

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:34 pm There is a listing per month, by usecase. Nothing more is realy feasible.

Based on what? Your programming knowledge that the memory requirement would be doubled? Forgive me if I don't pay any attention to what you think is or isn't possible.

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:34 pm But I seriously doubt that is even the issue.
What does it mater to you, if you know the automatic spend 5k on Ships,Troops or a facility upgrade? The Automatic spend 5k either way.

If I can see what it is being spent on I can stop it. If I don't know what it is being spent on, I can't.

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:34 pm What you want is money being reserved for something.

No, I want to see where the money is being spent. I can't make that any clearer. Literally, apparently...

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:34 pm Currently, that only seems to happen for Colonyships, if you use the Expansion planer.

Honey, if you want to get me started on the "Expansion planner" that's a wholenother conversation.

MichaelJ007 wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:01 am Maybe I am missing something, but I have turned every single automation option off, have a positive cash flow figure, but every time I accumulate like 10k cash it immediately disappears. I have no idea on what.

This guy gets it! If there was a log you could see exactly what you're spending it on.

Emperor0Akim wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:31 pm The things you ask to see for your Bank Account are in the game.

Empire Menu :

Economy, Funding Levels, Maintenance.

Colony Menu :
Every Colony single colony income is listed.

You'd see I've already addressed this if you read my comments. To recap: you're wrong. What I ask for is not visible anywhere. You're trying to answer a different question. It isn't helpful.

Emperor0Akim wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 7:31 pm Just turn every automation option into suggested or manuel.
This will teach you the fastest how your empire spends it's money.

And when you know this, you can slowly turn up the automation for stuff that annoys you, then you still know where your money goes.

Thank you. I'll now go back in time ten years and tell my previous self this useful information for the original game. Previous me will probably be glad they didn't have to work this out themselves all that time ago.

The last time I played it was fully manual, including retrofits, because there is literally no other way to play reliably. The mystery cash still happens, I still don't know why. And you can't tell me because the information isn't there to be viewed. It might be something obvious, it might be a bug. Who knows? The game was riddled with bugs and gameplay issues. This might just be another one.

Logging transactions seems like a trivial overhead compared to all the other problems. Make it optional if necessary. If nothing else it seems like a useful developer tool.

Flapping your hands at the financial tabs and being condescending won't make the problem go away, he said without a hint of irony.

MichaelJ007 wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:45 am Also, I noticed the Private Economy spends a lot of money on buying fuel. There is a line item in the PE that shows their fuel spend. There is no equivalent line on my income statement for fuel sold to the private economy (foreign states yes, a small value), but its nowhere close to the amount spent by the private economy. so who are they buying the fuel from? because I aint seeing that income anywhere.

And if we had a financial transaction log we could confirm or deny that. Maybe it's working as intended maybe it's a bug. Who knows?

ya could post a savegame of your game... maybe people can load it up and figure out where the money goes then?

Lunalis wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 11:12 am ya could post a savegame of your game... maybe people can load it up and figure out where the money goes then?

It's not an issue with any particular game, it's something I'd like to see in-game. My problem isn't specifically that I have an unknown expense, it's that it's possible to have an unknown expense.

maggiecow wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:48 am

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:34 pm But I seriously doubt that is even the issue.
What does it mater to you, if you know the automatic spend 5k on Ships,Troops or a facility upgrade? The Automatic spend 5k either way.

If I can see what it is being spent on I can stop it. If I don't know what it is being spent on, I can't.

zgrssd wrote: Wed Mar 30, 2022 2:34 pm What you want is money being reserved for something.

No, I want to see where the money is being spent. I can't make that any clearer. Literally, apparently...

Those two arguments disagree.
Do you only want to know how much is spend on "decorations for we love our leader day"?
Or do you want to be able to control it?

Or do you want to be able to reserve money, so the exact purpose stops matering and you have the money for the stuff you need?

I want the later, because it actually helps with the underlying problem, rather then give me information with no value for me.

MichaelJ007 wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 10:45 am Thanks. The only thing I could think it was was retrofits, but I was watching my fleets, and had set most of my designs to Manual. There was no way I was spending 10k every few days on retrofits.

Also, I noticed the Private Economy spends a lot of money on buying fuel. There is a line item in the PE that shows their fuel spend. There is no equivalent line on my income statement for fuel sold to the private economy (foreign states yes, a small value), but its nowhere close to the amount spent by the private economy. so who are they buying the fuel from? because I aint seeing that income anywhere.

Income - Fuel.png

I am honestly confused there is such a entry as "Private Fuel".
AFAIK, all resources belong to the private industry.
And when you buy ships or pay maintenance, you are buying those resources of the private economy*

If the PE was paying itself, that operation would be 0 Sum game. One part of the PE pays for what another part of the PE has. Total sum stays the same.

*However, currently the money does not seem to actually reach the Private economy - it just vanishes from the game. I reported this as a potential bug.

My space stations and my fuel tankers are providing a service to the private economy by storing/tansporting Caslon and refuelling their ships. Stands to reason they should pay me for the service.

Taxes on fuel is one of the major revenue sources for any government. This should be an income stream along with revenue from planets.

I am still not clear why my cash on hand fluctuates so much. Perhaps the UI model is just different from other games. In Stellaris and Civ for e.g., your income as shown in the UI is *after* all maintenance spends. So you dont suddenly see gold disappearing.

If you do have an AI governor, it would be ice to be able to set a budget for them, to limit their spend. As it is, some automation will bankrupt you in short order (garrisons, ship building).

MichaelJ007 wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:59 am My space stations and my fuel tankers are providing a service to the private economy by storing/tansporting Caslon and refuelling their ships. Stands to reason they should pay me for the service.

Taxes on fuel is one of the major revenue sources for any government. This should be an income stream along with revenue from planets.

I am still not clear why my cash on hand fluctuates so much. Perhaps the UI model is just different from other games. In Stellaris and Civ for e.g., your income as shown in the UI is *after* all maintenance spends. So you dont suddenly see gold disappearing.

If you do have an AI governor, it would be ice to be able to set a budget for them, to limit their spend. As it is, some automation will bankrupt you in short order (garrisons, ship building).

Your ships still need to buy the caslon to make fuel. Which is not a point, however?

Turn off all automatics and there should be no fluctuations of cash. If there is, you might have a bug

Troop and ship building advisors/automatics are controlled via the Funding Menu, Shift+F2. That is the only thing those maintenance settings can affect.