Matrix Games Forums

I am completely confused about how the withdrawal system works. I know there is a penalty for not doing them but as far as I can tell the game keeps whatever the penalty is a secret since no VP cost is shown for it.

but the things that confuse me are:

Can you just click Withdraw unit and it will meet the requirement? Or does the unit have to be in a certain location or base? If so where? Is it the same based on type unit, nationality, position of the moon...?

In the case of infantry which is usually so immobile that it could never reach a rear area base if you started on some of them on the first turn of the game, where do they have to go before withdrawal?

Is the correct command? For air there is a "Withdraw Group". Some of the other types I haven't found a command.

What happens if the unit is killed? Do you get penalized every turn even though you can't withdraw it?

For air units, what happens with the crews? The Withdraw message says that they are lost? If so why did the Kull spreadsheet use these units to train pilots? Is there a way to put them into the pool before removing the unit?

If find the Withdrawal system to be one of the most poorly implement parts of the game and most poorly documented. It is a shame they didn't make it automatic so the player wouldn't have to mess with it. Considering what I know so far it looks like the game would have been improved considerably if they had never put a unit that is subject to withdrawal on the map.

Land units withdraw automatically, they just disappear.

Ships can withdraw when disbanded in certain ports, usually size 7 and above, but they cannot withdraw if heavily damaged - I think combined damage of 50 points or higher. The withdraw button is at the bottom of the ship's page.

Air units have the "withdraw" button. You can pull the pilots into the pools before withdrawing the air unit via the pilot menu and the "To pool : Reserve" option.

I don't know where you got the idea that VPs are lost when a ship does not withdraw in time. I looked in the manual index and under "withdrawal" it referred me to Page 139 (section 6.9).

The paragraph there says in part:

"There is a Political Point penalty for failure
to withdraw a ship when scheduled. To withdraw a ship, the ship must be off-map or at any
national home base except the NEI and PI."

When players found the "National Home Port" criterion too restrictive (PH is not it for the US), a patch added any size 7 port in Australia or on the West Coast of India or the US. PH still does not qualify. National Home Ports and off-map bases still qualify.

My understanding of the damaged ship limitation on withdrawal is that each damage category cannot exceed 50, and the total of all categories must not exceed 99. If the scheduled ship has been sunk, you may have to withdraw another ship of the same nationality and the same type.

Land and air units just have to be unfragmented and meet the other criteria Lowpe mentioned to Withdraw.

You don't lose "victory points" for a ship or aircraft unit that doesn't withdraw, you are using political points.

Land and air units just have to be unfragmented and meet the other criteria Lowpe mentioned to Withdraw.
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What happens if a land unit is fragmented when it is supposed to withdraw?
WEXF

If there are fragments in play, the parent unit cannot withdraw. For air units, you may be able to disband the fragments (possibly losing the aircraft) so that the parent can withdraw. Or you may just have a delay while you move the fragments to reunite with the parent somewhere.

I don't think if the ship is sunk you will have to withdrawal another of the same type. Withdrawal is tied to a specific ship and when the ship is sunk, the request disappears. After all, I don't have to have the same type available.

I would rather be interested in the reward system for early withdrawal. In many cases, if I withdraw an air unit 14 days earlier, I will receive bonus points as a reward. Is there a system in it?

Some air units will give you some political points. Some will dump aircraft and pilots into the pool. Some give you nothing. I use most squadrons that withdrawal as training squadrons....GP

godefroycz wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 7:43 am I don't think if the ship is sunk you will have to withdrawal another of the same type. Withdrawal is tied to a specific ship and when the ship is sunk, the request disappears. After all, I don't have to have the same type available.

I would rather be interested in the reward system for early withdrawal. In many cases, if I withdraw an air unit 14 days earlier, I will receive bonus points as a reward. Is there a system in it?

Correct, it's a specific ship that is withdrawn, if it's sunk, then there's no withdrawal or penalty. The game doesn't ask for some other "sister" ship to be withdrawn. This is just like if a named ship is NOT sunk, but in the real war it was (for example Lexington) and you get the Lexington II (the game doesn't "invent" a new name for the Lexington's replacement), the game doesn't ask you to withdraw the original. As for the reward system, yes you do get political points for withdrawing early, even if only ONE day early! So if you're hard pressed for PPs, then disbanding early might be of interest to a player.

I misspoke (or miss typed) on VP, it is political points. But is the penalty a onetime penalty or every turn?

Also, on some units I am seeing the "Withdraw" command in red. Is this indicating they are overdue or something else?

kennonlightfoot wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:13 pm I misspoke (or miss typed) on VP, it is political points. But is the penalty a onetime penalty or every turn?

Also, on some units I am seeing the "Withdraw" command in red. Is this indicating they are overdue or something else?

It is ever turn that the unit stays over the withdrawal date. The color of the unit will change once the date of withdrawal comes within a certain range (I THINK 2 weeks before, but I can't remember for sure) and will remain that color until it's withdrawn as a reminder. Of note on CV aircraft that are on ship is that the withdrawal button is grayed out as this unit is on an aircraft carrier. It must be flown off to a friendly base in order to withdraw. So it's best not to be caught with such a unit on a CV out of range from a friendly base on it's withdrawal date, as you won't be able to do it. Political point loss adds up quickly. If you are thinking of early withdrawal of an air unit and you hit disband instead, the game will ask if you want to reform the group in a few months.... DON'T, as it will come back and you start losing political point right away as it's overdue for withdrawal upon return!!! Just a FYI.

BBfanboy wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:43 am If there are fragments in play, the parent unit cannot withdraw. For air units, you may be able to disband the fragments (possibly losing the aircraft) so that the parent can withdraw. Or you may just have a delay while you move the fragments to reunite with the parent somewhere.

Talking only about land units-if there are fragments that don't withdraw is there a penalty in PP or any other kind of penalty.
WEXF

Yes. Until the whole unit withdraws you are penalized PP.

BBfanboy wrote: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:15 pm Yes. Until the whole unit withdraws you are penalized PP.

Can you refer me to where that rule is?
I know there is a rule on ship withdrawals but where is the rule on land unit penalty?
WEXF

It is not documented in the manual, so I must have seen it in previous board discussions. The mechanism that just withdraws the land unit no matter where it is might also withdraw the fragments, but I have never seen that because I have never had one of those units fragmented at the time. Air units do need to be reunited before you withdraw them so I imagine LCUs should be the same. Not sure about fragmented ships ...

Fragmented ships are easy to deal with. All you need is a group of undersea welders and some very large C-clamps. Ptting them back together depends on the weather and the welding skill of the divers.

Doesn't help that the games interface for handling withdrawal is so crappy. I have air groups marked as needing withdrawal but without the "Withdrawal" command active. When you find a ship listed for withdrawal you can't go to that ship from the withdrawal dialog screen. You have to go to the Ship list and find it by name.

Which all reminds me of another question.

Where can you withdraw a ship from?
Any port? Major Ports?

kennonlightfoot wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:51 pm Doesn't help that the games interface for handling withdrawal is so crappy. I have air groups marked as needing withdrawal but without the "Withdrawal" command active. When you find a ship listed for withdrawal you can't go to that ship from the withdrawal dialog screen. You have to go to the Ship list and find it by name.

Which all reminds me of another question.

Where can you withdraw a ship from?
Any port? Major Ports?

This has been covered in detail in this very thread ...

kennonlightfoot wrote: Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:51 pm Doesn't help that the games interface for handling withdrawal is so crappy. I have air groups marked as needing withdrawal but without the "Withdrawal" command active. When you find a ship listed for withdrawal you can't go to that ship from the withdrawal dialog screen. You have to go to the Ship list and find it by name.

Which all reminds me of another question.

Where can you withdraw a ship from?
Any port? Major Ports?

For air groups that tell you they have to withdraw but there is no withdraw button you have to disband them.

I am seeing some units with the "Withdraw" in red but no withdraw by date. When the date is passed does it just disappear and leave the "Withdraw" in red as a marker?