Page 1 of 1

Lt. Westholm AVENGED!!!!!

Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:45 pm
by dwesolick
In a great PBEM game I'm playing, I just managed to sink the dreaded Japanese DD AMAGIRI.....You know the one that sank the PT-109......skippered by the famous Westholm.....who later went on to the presidency and, along with his beautiful wife Jackie, set new standards for style and grace until his tragic assassination? ;)

By the way, is there any scarier noise (for the Allies) than the sound of Long Lances hitting the water? :eek:

Re: Lt. Westholm AVENGED!!!!!

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:17 pm
by mbatch729
Originally posted by dwesolick
By the way, is there any scarier noise (for the Allies) than the sound of Long Lances hitting the water? :eek:


Yes, the sound of a Kate dropping a torp at a flattop...:eek:

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:50 pm
by Drex
The sound of the click of the "end turn" button as it reminds you that you forgot to set CAP over your CVs.

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:58 pm
by denisonh
Originally posted by Drex
The sound of the click of the "end turn" button as it reminds you that you forgot to set CAP over your CVs.


It is hitting send button on your email for a PBEM turn when you come to that realization......

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:05 am
by Mike_B20
Originally posted by denisonh
It is hitting send button on your email for a PBEM turn when you come to that realization......


You can get around that one by sending a second email with amended turn attached with a note begging...pleading, that your opponent use the second attached save.

Not that I've done that kind of thing...but I've thought of doing it:D

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:05 am
by Drex
Originally posted by denisonh
It is hitting send button on your email for a PBEM turn when you come to that realization......
Except my send button doesn't give me a sound.

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:20 pm
by Andy M
the deafening sound of silence can be even more ominous though :)

Re: Lt. Westholm AVENGED!!!!!

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 7:02 pm
by Matt Erickson
Originally posted by dwesolick
In a great PBEM game I'm playing, I just managed to sink the dreaded Japanese DD AMAGIRI.....You know the one that sank the PT-109......skippered by the famous Westholm.....who later went on to the presidency and, along with his beautiful wife Jackie, set new standards for style and grace until his tragic assassination? ;)

By the way, is there any scarier noise (for the Allies) than the sound of Long Lances hitting the water? :eek:



Actually according to the book "destroyer commander" written by....now where's that book:( anyways I belive the destroyer was the shigure it's commander who commanded the AMAGIRI
gotta read that book again..he was one helluva commander.

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:10 pm
by dwesolick
I'm not sure what you are saying, but there were four Japanese destroyers in Blackett Strait that night (Aug 2, 1943):

Amagiri
Shigure
Hagikaze
Arashi

Amagiri struck the PT-109 (skippered by Westholm, of course).

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2003 6:43 am
by Matt Erickson
I'll hunt down that book it's running around somewheres in my house I thought you were talking about JFK'S boat...anyways I was mistaken about the amagiri I think his previous boat was the amakatzue or something of that name...cheers.

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2003 7:16 pm
by dwesolick
Hi Matt,

Sorry about the confusion, it's sort of my own (smarta**) inside joke. JFK doesn't appear as the commander of PT-109...at ANY stage in UV (even mid-43 when he most emphatically was). Instead, a Lt Westholm is always the commander. I (and others before me) have raised the question why he doesn't appear and have yet to receive an answer (other than speculation).

So we WERE talking about the same boat (PT-109), hit by Amagiri in 43 and commanded, of course, by JFK......except in UV!:p

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 3:21 am
by LargeSlowTarget
Originally posted by dwesolick
Hi Matt,

Sorry about the confusion, it's sort of my own (smarta**) inside joke. JFK doesn't appear as the commander of PT-109...at ANY stage in UV (even mid-43 when he most emphatically was). Instead, a Lt Westholm is always the commander. I (and others before me) have raised the question why he doesn't appear and have yet to receive an answer (other than speculation).

So we WERE talking about the same boat (PT-109), hit by Amagiri in 43 and commanded, of course, by JFK......except in UV!:p


PT 109 had several COs before JFK took charge. I think the UV database is hardcoded to assign the historic commanders as of May 42 or - in case of the unit deployed in the area at a later date - the commanding officer who was in charge upon deployment.

Re PT 109 from http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/p/PT-109.htm:

[...] The first action for PT-109, then commanded by Lt. Rollins E. Westholm, took place on the night of 7-8 December 1942, after reconnaissance planes reported eight Japanese destroyers moving down the "slot." Eight PTs split into three groups to meet this opposing force, with patrols off Kokumbona, another off Cape Esperance, and a four-boat division lay to [came to a stationary position] near Savo Island to act as a striking force. After initial contact took place off Cape Esperance, the striking group of four boats closed and unleashed a torpedo attack. In the ensuing running gun battle, the PTs weaved around the destroyers in a confused melee. Although PT-59 was hit by shellfire, and suffered minor damage, the Japanese withdrew, racing north with uncertain damage and without delivering their reinforcements.

[...]

Over the next few months, while the MTB flotilla regrouped on Tulagi, the Japanese devoted most of their efforts to strengthening their garrisons in the upper Solomons. There were few offensive operations by either side, a respite sorely needed by PT-109 and her sister boats. The flotilla was short on manpower, with barely enough men to man the motor torpedo boats, let alone repair those damaged in combat and maintain adequate base facilities. Indeed, the crews were exhausted and easy prey to malaria, dengue fever and other tropical diseases. During this trying period, Lt. Westholm left PT-109 to become operations officer for the flotilla, leaving Ensign Bryant L. Larson in command of the boat.

[...]

In between regular security patrols, PT-109 underwent several short maintenance periods, which included the installation of a surface search radar set. As radar sets were not issued with this class of PT-boats, the device was undoubtedly a "scrounged" item and it is unclear how long it lasted. Ensign Larson left the boat on 20 April 1943 and Ensign Leonard J. Thom, USNR, the executive officer, took charge until relieved by Lieutenant (jg) John Fitzgerald Kennedy, USNR, on the 24th. Starting in late April, the motor torpedo boat increasingly conducted patrols in the Russell Islands area and on 16 June, PT-109 shifted with other boats to a "bush" berth on Rendova Island in support of these forward operations. [...]

Btw, the author of "Japanese Destroyer Captain" is leading IJN torpedo tactician Tameichi Hara, skipper of Amatsukaze and Shigure, and later of CL Yahagi during the Yamato suicide mission.

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 6:27 am
by dwesolick
Thanks for the history! :) We know about all the other commanders, the point is that JFK took over in April 43 and several UV scenarios (like the great one I'm playing with Blitzer now....if I get my laptop going again, that is:( ) begin AFTER April 43...like scenario 11 which begins in June 43. Who is in charge of the 109? You guessed it! Westholm. All the other commanders (that are supposed to) change, why not the 109? For example in scenario 11, the one I'm now playing, Ghormley is no longer in charge of SOPAC (thank goodness).

The question still remains unanswered. My guess is that the Matrix team simply overlooked it (a minor detail, to be sure anyway).

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2003 1:27 pm
by LargeSlowTarget
Originally posted by dwesolick
We know about all the other commanders, the point is that JFK took over in April 43 and several UV scenarios (...) begin AFTER April 43...like scenario 11 which begins in June 43. Who is in charge of the 109? You guessed it! Westholm.


Oh, now I get it - my mistake! I haven't played any of the 43-scenarios, so I didn't realize this...sorry!