Matrix Games Forums

The selectable load-outs for the JU88A-4 are really sad.

It makes no noticeable improvements over its in-game predecessor JU88A.

You increased the Max Load from 5514 lbs to 6617 lbs, but did nothing to actually increase the bombs carried.

The WiTE2 JU88A-4 load-outs consists of only the following:
------
28 x 50kg GPHE Bomb
------
2 x 500kg GPHE Bomb
2 x 250kg GPHE Bomb
(fuel tanks)
------
2 x 1000 kg GPHE Bomb
(fuel tanks)
------
2 x LMB Mine
(fuel tanks)
-------
2 x LMB Mine (wasted slot)(why is this slot just a duplicate of the previous one???)
(fuel tanks)
-------

On review, many of the following are missing, to include:
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1 x 1800 kg (this bomb was previous dropped on London and used on the 1st day of Barbarossa)
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2 x 1400 kg
---------
6 x 250 kg
---------
2 x 1000 kg
2 x 500 kg
----------

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While I understand it is not possible to make every load plan configuration available, I feel you could do much better than this for the Ju 88A-4.

From a game perspective, what would you expect these extra load outs to do exactly? I am not sure how much ordnance is modeled into it other that vMAN / vARM

1. I would expect to get rid of the duplicate.

2. I would expect to be able to select a higher yield load plan from those afforded, historically, to the JU 88A-4.

For example, the (2 x 1400 kg) or the (2 x 1000 kg AND 2 x 500kg) would be nice options.

DarkHorse2 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:55 am 1. I would expect to get rid of the duplicate.

2. I would expect to be able to select a higher yield load plan from those afforded, historically, to the JU 88A-4.

For example, the (2 x 1400 kg) or the (2 x 1000 kg AND 2 x 500kg) would be nice options.

On my save, with patch v1.02.25, the two LMB mine loadouts are not duplicates. They both have fuel tanks, a 1220L and the other is a 1220L + 680L.

Secondly, I'm not sure how much having higher yielding bombs would really impact the game. From a historical accuracy perspective sure, but I don't see how having any of the other historical loadouts will improve the players' gameplay.

therealevan wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:14 am

DarkHorse2 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:55 am 1. I would expect to get rid of the duplicate.

2. I would expect to be able to select a higher yield load plan from those afforded, historically, to the JU 88A-4.

For example, the (2 x 1400 kg) or the (2 x 1000 kg AND 2 x 500kg) would be nice options.

On my save, with patch v1.02.25, the two LMB mine loadouts are not duplicates. They both have fuel tanks, a 1220L and the other is a 1220L + 680L.

Secondly, I'm not sure how much having higher yielding bombs would really impact the game. From a historical accuracy perspective sure, but I don't see how having any of the other historical loadouts will improve the players' gameplay.

From what i can tell, having a large number of smaller bombs is more effective on Indirection, attacking airplane on the ground and low fort levels. Larger bombs do better against fortifications.

Veterin wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:45 am

therealevan wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 1:14 am

DarkHorse2 wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 12:55 am 1. I would expect to get rid of the duplicate.

2. I would expect to be able to select a higher yield load plan from those afforded, historically, to the JU 88A-4.

For example, the (2 x 1400 kg) or the (2 x 1000 kg AND 2 x 500kg) would be nice options.

On my save, with patch v1.02.25, the two LMB mine loadouts are not duplicates. They both have fuel tanks, a 1220L and the other is a 1220L + 680L.

Secondly, I'm not sure how much having higher yielding bombs would really impact the game. From a historical accuracy perspective sure, but I don't see how having any of the other historical loadouts will improve the players' gameplay.

From what i can tell, having a large number of smaller bombs is more effective on Indirection, attacking airplane on the ground and low fort levels. Larger bombs do better against fortifications.

I may do some testing around that with combat logging turned on. I'm curious to see how the game logs the load outs.

Veterin wrote: Mon May 09, 2022 5:45 am
From what i can tell, having a large number of smaller bombs is more effective on Indirection, attacking airplane on the ground and low fort levels. Larger bombs do better against fortifications.

The large number of smaller bombs were effective against certain targets.

But the other loads were effective as well. Otherwise they would not have continued to manufacture or use anything other than SD 50s.

Use of SD4-H1s were particularly effective.

that is an interesting read

i wonder what is the real help from lvl bombers against fortifications in a game
as it seems to me that it is much more efficient just to bring arty to a fight and in most cases you will get fort lvl reduction even if you will not win a fight

Stamb wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:32 am that is an interesting read

i wonder what is the real help from lvl bombers against fortifications in a game
as it seems to me that it is much more efficient just to bring arty to a fight and in most cases you will get fort lvl reduction even if you will not win a fight

And you'd save some fuel to boot (most likely, assuming the guns are horse drawn).

Stamb wrote: Tue May 10, 2022 7:32 am ...

i wonder what is the real help from lvl bombers against fortifications in a game
as it seems to me that it is much more efficient just to bring arty to a fight and in most cases you will get fort lvl reduction even if you will not win a fight

several bits to consider - and as ever this is situational

In general, the harder the target the better it is to use heavier bombs, in WiTW LB become a GA-unit asset, my feeling is the distinction is less important in WiTE2 for a variety if reasons.

so unpick that, run a GA-unit (they are detected so shouldn't flip to GA-interdiction), you will get a mix of disrupt, damage, and destroy. The latter 2 are elements not available for the coming combat, the disrupts flip to fatigue, so that is a bit off the defender but usually marginal.

If you have a lot of air assets, or the right mix, this double team is the way to go, if not, I personally would put it all into GS

So how does air vary to artillery?

Well its more flexible, you can shift focus more readily than move SUs.

It hits first, and this, to me, is the key bonus. Start a battle and GS occurs, if uncontested all the better but it gives you the mix of disrupt/damage/destroy. All those elements now do not take part in the rest of the battle and as some have noted, GS often targets heavy weapons. So not only does that feed into the final result (ie more chance of 2-1+) it means their artillery is now not firing either at yours or your attacking units.

is it worth it? Depends.

my experience, playing after playing both sides and using new not useless GS, is that lvl bombers are doing pretty minimal damage

about GA

even if target is detected
for example it stands next to me
then, once again it is my experience, 50% of GA missions are turned into interdiction and rest will kill maybe 10 men
i was doing it as a Soviet, but GA is not intercepted so i was not using a lot of planes
and now i will not use it at all, until it is fixed

Yes, I want rockets on Pe-2's and Il-4's as well. Pe-2's should get the dive bombing bonus as well.

Pe-2 will not be treated different from Ju 88, both were somewhat dive-capable but are modelled as level bombers. We have no type between true dive bombers and dive-capable bombers. We do not even separate true dive bombers from ground attack aircraft.

It's clear that the fact that an aircraft is capable of something does not mean that this was its main use. The most similar example is the one given by Dennis, the Ju-88, which was also capable of dive bombing but was practically not used for that function, despite the much work (and consequent delays) that it cost during the design period that the aircraft could perform that task. Furthermore, not even the entire payload of the Pe-2 (when using bombs in the inner bay) could be dropped in a 70-degree dive.

What is certain is that the Pe-2s could, in their initial versions, carry a 500kg bomb... and this is missing from the game. I think it would be correct to add a 500kg bomb between the payloads of the early Pe-2 models (there is plenty of room to do this since only three slots are used in the editor).

"Whatever the reason the largest bomb capable of being carried into combat by the Peshka was a single FAB-500 or a pair of FAB-250 bombs, with wing loads of FAB-100 ordnance carried in special cassettes. The split of 600kg carried internally and 400kg externally placed loading complications on the Pe-2, especially as only the wing-mounted bombs could be released in the 70-degree dive, the maximum angle cleared for operations. The internally toted bombs had no special dive-release gear and had to be dropped in level flight." (Peter C. Smith, "The Petlyakov Pe-2. Stalin's Successful Red Air Force Light Bomber", 2020, page 91)
https://es.scribd.com/read/501164573/Th ... ght-Bomber#